Nonsensical point costs for weapons / items.

G3 is 5 points. FAL is 5 points. They're the exact same gun, only the FAL has the additional bonus of the bolt release. FAL should be a point more or G3 should be a point less. This isn't a choice.

Scopes. If all 4x scopes are to be 3 points, there is no reason to use the AGOG, SUSAT or ISM scope whatsoever. The SU230 has the cleanest reticle and is no more invasive than any other. The SUSAT and ISM scopes should be cheaper. Perhaps even 0 points as they are often supplied with their respective rifles. This would encourage their use and prevent them being utterly obsolete.

Scope rant, continued, off topic. You already have the model ingame for the 7x scope. Copypaste a 4x version of it and offer it in place of the current choices? Sniper rifles with short tan scopes look extremely strange. Also for god's sake add a non flip-to-side mount with a magnifier for the reflex sights at its current cost and a flip-to-side mount with magnifiers at an increased cost. 5 points for a flip-to-side magnified EoTech would be a serious consideration. I'd think long and hard between a sidearm and that specific capability.

Sniper rifles. 2 points for a M40. 3 points for a greased bolt. Alternatively, 5 points for an M14 which hits harder, has 20 rounds in the mag, can provide follow-up shots and is just as accurate. There isn't a choice here. Make the M40 free, remove the greased bolt and add it to the gun for free. Then there's a choice between volume of fire or perhaps spending the points on a suppressor and bipod then racking a bolt between shots. Also up the damage on the M40, it still doesn't consistently kill with a torso hit.

L85 is 5 points. Why? Fully support it being 5 or 6 points if the SUSAT is a free option as described above as it sort've shoehorns it into its niche. In the current state... why? Also this gun needs a bayonet, it's a glorified spear in real life and Sandstorm needs a good excuse for more bayonets.

MK17 is 3 points. FAL is 5 points. Weren't these guns supposed to be the counterpart of eachother? 7.62 NATO, 20rd mag, bolt release, etc? MK17 should be 5 points. Also the MK17 is certainly not firing its listed ammo (7.62 NATO) ingame, unsure if this should be reported as a bug or not. If it's going to continue firing 5.56 it needs a 30rd mag.

SKS is 2 points. Extended mag is 2 points. AKM is 3 points, has better sights, is otherwise identical and can fire full auto which is required as neither gun does much damage. SKS needs to be 1 point or that bayonet needs to be usable. Preferably the latter.

Please make the costs of items sensible so I can enjoy all the game's content without the experience of showing up to war in a wheelchair.

last edited by Whitby

I agree with a lot of this. Including scopes for free with the L85 and G36 is an interesting idea. I've been arguing for muzzle devices for free already, kinda the same concept.

Not sure what your attraction to bayonets is, I've not seen them used attached to rifles for anything other than a photo op in ages.

@maa_bunny There have been several cases of british troops [the ones that use the L85] routing taliban troops with the use of bayonets in recent history, so maybe thats why?

last edited by FEARtheMoose

Interesting feedback.

I like the idea of bayonets. Could be added in the "knife" slot for upgrades, which is empty right now.

Yeah, the Scottish have successfully done a number of bayonet charges in Afghanistan in recent years. There are few things more frightening than a Scotsman charging at you, but one of those things is a Scotsman with a bayonet.

I believe the US forces still issue M9 bayonets although I've never seen a local fighter with one equipped on a hand-me-down.

SKS already has a bayonet, it just cannot be used.

They exist and they'd be incredibly useful as they were in DoI.

The game doesn't specify whether the mk17 is the L or H variant. The 20 round capacity and the shape of the magazine imply that it is a SCAR H and therefore should fire 7.62s obviously so I'd say its an error or a bug.

It'd be cool if they made the advisor get a SCAR L with the normal 30-round STANAG 5.56 rounds and gave marksman a SCAR H maybe?

It says it's 7.62 NATO but it takes twice as many shots to kill as the FAL.

@whitby said in Nonsensical point costs for weapons / items.:

It says it's 7.62 NATO but it takes twice as many shots to kill as the FAL.

Should be the same TTK on Heavy Armor, but on Light / No Armor the SCAR-H needs two shots. It's basically a cooler-looking AKM with less mag capacity.

I think the G3 is fine at 5 supply as it was basically the meta, although now that Long Barrels are gone and it doesn't one-shot anymore it could be a bit cheaper.

Bolt-action rifles should just be one supply, honestly. Greased Bolt used to be two supply and Stripper Clips used to be one supply. Even those could be cheaper.

You didn't mention this at all, but pistols seem pretty overpriced. 3 points for an L106A1? It doesn't (at least, it better fucking not) two-shot Heavy Armor in CQB anymore. Why make it cost the same as an Uzi or M249?

I'm 100% okay with the high-priced L85A2. It's basically a M4A1 that's more controllable, and the M4 is already 5 supply.

I personally think some optics specific to some weapons should be cheaper, like the ISM / SUSAT. The PU scope for the Mosin is pretty clean, though, as well as the PSO for the SVD (although the ACOG is probably better than the PSO so maybe it could be two supply).

SKS isn't even available on the same class as the AKM is, although it is on the same class that gets the Alpha AK. Both fire 7.62x39 and that fucks people up quick, though. I think the SKS is fine for the most part, although I think it should have less recoil. It was pretty much perfect before the Nov 8th patch.

@marksmanmax said in Nonsensical point costs for weapons / items.:

@whitby said in Nonsensical point costs for weapons / items.:

It says it's 7.62 NATO but it takes twice as many shots to kill as the FAL.

Should be the same TTK on Heavy Armor, but on Light / No Armor the SCAR-H needs two shots. It's basically a cooler-looking AKM with less mag capacity.

I think the G3 is fine at 5 supply as it was basically the meta, although now that Long Barrels are gone and it doesn't one-shot anymore it could be a bit cheaper.

Bolt-action rifles should just be one supply, honestly. Greased Bolt used to be two supply and Stripper Clips used to be one supply. Even those could be cheaper.

You didn't mention this at all, but pistols seem pretty overpriced. 3 points for an L106A1? It doesn't (at least, it better fucking not) two-shot Heavy Armor in CQB anymore. Why make it cost the same as an Uzi or M249?

I'm 100% okay with the high-priced L85A2. It's basically a M4A1 that's more controllable, and the M4 is already 5 supply.

I personally think some optics specific to some weapons should be cheaper, like the ISM / SUSAT. The PU scope for the Mosin is pretty clean, though, as well as the PSO for the SVD (although the ACOG is probably better than the PSO so maybe it could be two supply).

SKS isn't even available on the same class as the AKM is, although it is on the same class that gets the Alpha AK. Both fire 7.62x39 and that fucks people up quick, though. I think the SKS is fine for the most part, although I think it should have less recoil. It was pretty much perfect before the Nov 8th patch.

From what I can see, AKM is 2 shots to kill on the torso of an unarmoured target, light or heavy armour. Although if the heavy armour is more than spitting distance away it takes three.

SCAR and G3 hover between 1-2 shots to bring a target down depending on heavy armour or not.
(Turns out the G3 is utterly inferior to the FAL this patch.)

FAL and M14 onetaps heavy armour.

I don't see why a bolt rifle should be more than zero supply, but at least we agree here a change needs to be made in a direction.

Pistols certainly aren't overpriced. They're all fairly ineffective, but the L106A1 is more effective than half the rifles as it's basically a SCAR with more recoil and less ammo. If an exclusive choice was to be made I'd take that pistol over some of the rifles. Having said all that, I like the high cost of it compared to the free makarov and the options inbetween. You can get the job done with a free gun, you can excel at the job with an M9 or 45 or you can dominate the job with the L106. You cannot compare pistols vs primaries on cost. They are entirely exclusive of eachother as the handgun is a choice.

Your argument for the L85 is solid. I probably should've included the M4 in my initial post. Why are the water guns 5 points when the FAL is 4? There is no circumstance where the FAL is inferior as the M4/L85 require hosing an enemy down for an eternity. These guns needs dramatically buffing to justify their high pricetag. Unless of course, the high pricetag comes with a free SUSAT, maybe?

PU for the Mosin is the best scope ingame, hands down. Shame the Mosin and a greased bolt costs more than an SVD.

SKS takes the same 2-3 hits to kill as the AK while being locked to semi auto. The AK is a hose-them-down weapon already. The SKS has no full auto and costs MORE with the same capacity magazine. It's totally ineffective by comparison.

I agree with this post a lot.

Some of the equipment costs in this game are ridiculous, especially with the Mosin-Nagant being less cost efficient than a kitted out SVD regardless of optic.

Yes to all of this. Especially a 4x hunting scope for snipers and greased bolt as the default bolt action speed.
(Greased bolt.. What the fuck were they thinking, seriously. I'd love to meet the imbecile that made that decision.)
Would also love to see the bayonets appear. At the moment it looks really stupid when a player is killed from the poke of a barrel. The bloke that decided a poke should kill someone is probably the same that thinks a door can kill you.

@sharpeyehodgey Door kills were probably added in as a joke because it is pretty hilarious when it happens. Sandstorm isn't a milsim; they can have some fun dicking around lmao.

The Greased Bolt came from Day of Infamy.

@whitby said in Nonsensical point costs for weapons / items.:

Why are the water guns 5 points when the FAL is 4?

I think it's because those "water guns" used to be complete lasers, although they aren't anymore. I still think they should cost 5 supply, though, or else everyone would just take the M4 over anything else.

G3 and FAL are limited with a 20-round mag. I think the SCAR-H should get a 30-round Extended Mag or maybe 30 by default as it can barely do the job it's supposed to already. 20 rounds just makes it trash compared to other options.

the L106A1 is more effective than half the rifles as it's basically a SCAR with more recoil and less ammo'

But... why? It's a 9mm pistol. Yet, somehow, the L106A1 has more velocity per shot than an Uzi with a much longer barrel and the exact same cartridge. It just doesn't make any sense as to why it's as good as it is. With the option to buy an Extended Mag for 20 rounds it puts every other pistol (and many primary weapons) to shame, and it's retarded since the Insurgents have nothing like that by comparison. It's basically the old Ins2014 M9 with an Ext. Mag and AP equipped.

last edited by MarksmanMax

imo the fal is one of the better guns in the game, especially when compared with the G3 and Scar, more consistent dmg faster reloads and it also seems to have less felt recoil or maybe it's just easier to control, G3s kinda poop unless used like a dmr

@marksmanmax. Well I find being able to kick a door completely off it's hinges with enough force to fly into a person on the other side killing them outright rather stupid in a game where it can take 2 bullets to kill a player. I also never stated this game was a Milsim.

What do you mean by bolt release for the FAL? I personally prefer the G3 for its more consistent recoil, but it doesn't matter too much because you're not choosing between them. Other than that, they're more or less identical. The Mk17 is the worst of the 7.62x51 rifles, which might explain its price.

@cyoce

Reloading from empty is significantly faster with a FAL than a G3... or any AR15 than any AK variant... etc.

The reason for this is there's a bolt holdopen, where a riser in the magazine (or similar feature) catches a latch which in turn locks the bolt open when the last bullet is fired. This functions in a similar way to how a semi auto pistol slide locks back on the last bullet - when a new magazine is inserted, a catch can be depressed allowing the bolt or slide to travel forward picking up a fresh round.

The alternative, as is the case with a G3 or an AK variant is the charging handle must be fully utilised which requires moving your hands around the gun and so forth.

last edited by Whitby

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