New gameplay trailer, let's break it down

Finally, some footage of action. Let's break it down!
Youtube Video

Eeeeeeh.... Only saw bits and pieces of gameplay. I also see that bombs are still a thing too so i lm not sure how to take that. I really hope they learned something and make ability spam take the back seat.

last edited by CANNED_F3TUS

@canned_f3tus said in New gameplay trailer, let's break it down:

Eeeeeeh.... Only saw bits and pieces of gameplay. I also see that bombs are still a thing too so i lm not sure how to take that. I really hope they learned something and make ability spam take the back seat.

Word from testers say that it's been toned down greatly. I expect it either be an option only available on larger capital ships, or have a longer cooldown, or limited use. I trust in what they say, but hey, we'll know in a week.

it was mentioned often already that skills are limited to admiral ship only

@canned_f3tus Bombers and torpedoes are limited use. You can see you the little bars underneath their ability icons.

@canned_f3tus special abilities only for admiral ships, three charges only. I hope you saw the gameplay stream. Bombs are still relatively strong if used in the right moment. But you only have three of them with a long cooldown, so no spam anymore.

That is good news and im looking forward to playing the beta than.

Here's what I really like from what I've seen. I've stated this earlier in the Eldar thread, but I want to say that it's extremely encouraging to see that a lot of things I had gripes about in the first game have been addressed. Hell, I dug up some of my posts from the old forums (the older, less angry ones) from back in early March 2016, and the hype train is in full steam.

I'll list them out and explain why I think they're significant changes:

  • Skirmish is now a true sandbox to allow the player to experiment. This was one of the things I hated the most way back in the day, and I wasn't around when Custom Game was implemented but it was never a true sandbox to do exactly what you wanted to from a customization standpoint. This is one of the first things I noticed on the stream and I'm extremely happy to have a place that I can study, experiment and try ideas against the AI before I unleash it on human opponents.

  • Customization for ships is now much simpler, and that's a good thing. A lot of complaints I see on the stream, YT, Steam forums, are people are upset that you can longer throw a billion different upgrades on every kind of ship. I will say immediately that not only is the current format more akin to how BFG is, but it makes balance MUCH, much easier. As a designer, you can then focus on a specific ship and its layout instead of having to worry about the Mark/Favor, and the 5 other upgrades and crew skills that you have vs. the other who has the same degree of complication. Now, you can directly compare one ship with another and adjust its stats directly without having to worry about the rest.

  • Upgrades are streamlined and makes sense. Skills, that are considered rare/borderline arcane or are exceptional Admiral skills, are only available on Flagships. This not only makes fluff sense (not every ship will have ancient MWJ technology), but makes abilities much more precious to use on the battlefield without the spam. There are also fleet-wide bonuses that can be applied, but those are much less impactful in scale because they apply to the entire fleet and not just one ship. The upgrades that do affect only one ship are truly powerful and thus, more rare. When every ship can Micro Warp Jump, it makes the ability less previous, makes the flagship feel less special, and makes the game feel spammy. I'm watching Ordnance (including Bombers) very carefully because I don't want to see the value of fleet carriers diminished over the course of a longer, harder fought match.

  • Unique flavors and faction identify still exist. They exist in the form of specific upgrades that you can only equip if you pick a certain sub-faction (e.g. Space Wolves vs. Dark Angels (lol)), and with the Stances that fundamentally changes how certain factions behave. These Stances gives each faction individuality, such as Lock On! equivalent of an order for IN doing something completely different for Dark Eldar (270 degree fire for prow weapons for example). This means that factions and ships will still have strong faction identity, and even more so if you go on the sub-faction level.

  • Less is more. Less customization options, less abilities to spam, less skills, MORE BALANCE. This is better for the player playing it, better for the opponent experiencing it, better for the designers targeting the balance, and better for the community watching it on stream. When you watch earlier BFG:A1 battles, shit was ALL over the place. Combined with Favors and other craziness going on, you have trouble understanding what was going on and what the actual issue of the game was in a lot of ways. Was it Taunt that was a problem? Was the the traktor beams? Was it the mega Kanons? Well, the answer was, all of the above, times 20, because 20 other ships had it, and then apply the same math to the other faction you're playing against, in multiple different matchups. This is what previously gave the game that MOBA feel and something that BFG traditionalists hated. It's what also threw balance way out the window and made the turnaround of balance from designers take so long. If this wasn't changed and they introduced all 12 factions, this game would be unplayable through and through if we wanted to take this game seriously.

  • There has been a lot of steps to make the MP experience great. Have you guys noticed from the Stream that the health of the ships have doubled compared to the first game? This allows for more much precise damage calculation for the sake of balancing weapons, armor and health than the first game. What about the severity of Criticals have been downgraded to be not as player-damaging? I forgot which thread I was on way back when, but I spoke heavily of the importance of balancing the game from the top-down. This doesn't mean ignore the casual players and focus only on top player feedback, that's how you often end up with games that are not fun except for a very sub-sect of people. What this means is that when top-down balance is performed correctly, the casual players will not notice the changes because it's not relevant in the areas that they care about, but the competitive players will. With all the emphasis on KISS (Keep it simple, stupid), Less is More design, we might be setting ourselves up for long-term success in the MP community. SP players come and go, but players competing online, streaming on Twitch, putting up YouTube guides, setting up tournaments, and fostering the online competitive community is what will give this game legs. After all, it's free marketing and is self-cultivating. One of the biggest things I try and teach (yes, I also teach) is that you cannot design an "esports game". Build a good game and the community will build the esports around it. Most, if not all of RTS stay alive over the years because of these core principles.

With that said, I look forward to playing with the various factions in the beta. I will first visit Skirmish, play a few games and get my hotkeys in order, and then I'll hit the online scene. My play order will probably be Dark Eldar, CW Eldar and then Corsairs, but I'll end up getting to all the factions eventually. I invite everyone to come learn with me on Stream, but if you hate space-elves, then I'll see you on the battlefield!

last edited by LKHERO

@lkhero
Ugh, almost that entire list top to bottom is a disappointment to read:

  • Skirmish is now a true sandbox to allow the player to experiment. Unlike yourself, this was overwhelmingly my favourite part of the game. It was like having a little campaign for each faction. There was already custom games if I wanted to have everything unlocked from day one.

  • Customization for ships is now much simpler, and that's a good thing. Again, disagree completely here. Maybe the multiplayer crowd cares about this, but then make that kind of crap multiplayer-only. It annoys me that the "everything must be equal" multiplayer stance is ruining things for those of us who couldn't be less interested in multiplayer.

  • Upgrades are streamlined and makes sense. Maybe in the case of active abilities that might have been a good thing, but applied universally, again, all I'm seeing is "here's less stuff for you to pick from".

  • Unique flavors and faction identify still exist. This is literally the only thing on this entire list that actually sounds nice. Then again, coupling it with the "but less customization across the board" bit ends up nullifying the excitement I once had.

  • Less is more. Less customization options, less abilities to spam, less skills, MORE BALANCE. Again, I couldn't care less about the balance, I only care about fun. More is more, less is less. I'm not going to applaud having less stuff to play around with.

  • There has been a lot of steps to make the MP experience great... At the expense of singleplayer.

I wish Tindalos luck with everything, but this list is like a neon sign telling me to cancel my pre-order. I don't give two craps about multiplayer - never have, never will - so I'm not going to waste my money to have my singleplayer experience utterly gutted for that. Best of luck lads, but I'd sooner put my money towards something catered to singleplayer.

@Romeo I thought they said they had multiple faction campaigns? Why do you think less is more is a bad thing? You get to focus more on the ships and relying on them to win the game and less about abilities being able to do that. Even vs. the AI, is that the hard AI beating you because it can throw down 30 bombs, or is that you outplaying them with maneuvers and deployment?

@romeo I would wait to see the campaigns, they have radically changed virtually everything since the first game. This is very definitely a sequal, not an expansion to the last game. The new campaigns are a Total War-style Grand Strategy (there are three, as already announced; for the combined Imperial factions, Necrons and Tyranids). There will be plenty to do in SP.

last edited by CALiGeR_Reborn

@caliger_reborn yes but all the limitations that are being imposed in an attempt to make MP balanced will carry over to said campaigns at least in theory.

@lkhero less is more for MP but when that is applied to SP content its just less. It does not matter if race X is overpowered in a SP setting. What matters is your options to bust a move the way you want to on some computron face. That said some of the changes are probably going to be helpful in doing larger scale fights in SP so i wont jump on the hate it bandwagon just yet. The scrim changes is garbo hands down tho... all they needed to do was reinstate the customized battle for people to experiment with and then scrim could be everything romeo wants and you would still have your playground.

last edited by imptastic

@imptastic Seperate this entirely from the campaign, it’s very different.

@caliger_reborn you think the base mechanics and customization options wont carry over? I find that hard to believe but hey would love to be wrong. lol

@imptastic I don’t think, I know they won’t, skirmish is pure sandbox now; the campaigns are... radically different. Can’t specify how right now, but you’ll see.

last edited by CALiGeR_Reborn

@caliger_reborn did they let the closed beta play around with campaign options or something? i was unaware that there was this much info released on the single player campaigns other than some content flavor.

@imptastic There was a closed Beta I was a part of. Otherwise the devs have given hints but nothing concrete, so I’ll keep my silence.

last edited by CALiGeR_Reborn

@caliger_reborn i was under the impression that the closed beta was just for mp stuff but hey thats great to know.

@imptastic First one was, second one was dedicated entirely to campaign.

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