Switchable optics on sights

Please add the possibility to switch optics on sights, on which such function exists in reality.

A large number of maps provides for a constant change in the distance of the battle with the average (when fighting on the street) for a short (at the entrance to the rooms/buildings) and sights 1x extremely effective in close combat is extremely inconvenient in battles at a distance of more than 150 m, and Vice versa, a fighter with optics 2x or more, entering the room becomes extremely clumsy and vulnerable. Sights with switching the aiming mode could correct this situation and significantly improve the dive. Moreover, the samples presented in the game actually have such functionality.

0_1543929775783_cc996a89-83ff-4b6b-b38b-88236e729eb3-image.png
A optics option like this would be great and pretty fun to play with! I know games like Arma have a variation of this with certain sights

Then you'd be a one man army and the devs don't want that.

I'd love to see usable flip-to-side magnifiers on 1x sights and the Specter actually be switchable power. I think added view obstruction combined with a higher point cost would make it balanced.

I don't think we need offset sights at all. They're not popular with the military and combat community, I only ever see them on competition rifles. The closest you'd get is a small red dot mounted to the top of an ACOG replacing the backup iron sights. I think that would be unnecessary as we could have the Specter be the 4x/1x switchable optic and leave the ACOG as the fixed 4x optic.

EoTech magnifiers might not be popular with grunts but they're used by special forces and contractors seemingly quite preferentially. The "Advisor" class amalgamates those roles. They're popular enough NWI has included them already, they just haven't added the functionality. Which they should. They should cost a fair few points though, it should be a choice between a handgun AND grenade OR flip-to-side functionality.

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@whitby said in Switchable optics on sights:

EoTech magnifiers might not be popular with grunts

Popular has nothing to do with it they're not issued it, I'm sure there are tons of grunts that would love to use them if they were given them.

@maa_bunny

I'm aware they're not issued to grunts, I was reusing your words in my response. It doesn't change that there are still many in use by security contractors and special forces.

@vengefulmosquito
Well then they should replace it with a model of an unflippable magnifier. It's that simple. Having this model of a flippable mag. makes a lot of us wish for it to be functional. And it's very dissapointing when it's not.

I support this idea fully, but imo it should be used on almost every scope that has this or similar function.
The G36KE's sight for example has an "iron sight" on top of the scope:
https://www.evike.com/images/large/SCOPE-K-X037-3.jpg

Unfortunately we all know because of crybabies this won't happen.
"Oh no it's not balanced, the poor hajis with their 60s technology won't be as effective as one of the most powerful modern army with the latest equipment."

@sgt-kanyo said in Switchable optics on sights:

I support this idea fully, but imo it should be used on almost every scope that has this or similar function.
The G36KE's sight for example has an "iron sight" on top of the scope:

This gets a little different. Many sighting systems have emergency backup sights. The iron sights on top of the ACOG, Elcans, and the G-36E's sights are intended for use in case the optic breaks or malfunctions. They're simple sighting systems that aren't intended for regular use, but are more of a "better than nothing" sight. I don't think these need to be usable in the game.

@grabbinpeels1 said in Switchable optics on sights:

Well then they should replace it with a model of an unflippable magnifier. It's that simple. Having this model of a flippable mag. makes a lot of us wish for it to be functional. And it's very dissapointing when it's not.

Agreed. If they decide for game play reasons that they really don't want the magnifiers to be flippable, there are plenty of fixed scope mounts that could be modeled. I'd still be annoyed by the big 1X / 4X switch on the side of the Specter I can't use though ...

last edited by MAA_Bunny

@sgt-kanyo Just give it to both sides. Balance problem solved

Here is two reposts as this have been discussed in several old threads:

FLIPABLE SCOPES 1/2
Hi, the reason for not giving all these options in games (for example cs:go or Insurgency2014), is because it makes the game less gear choice dependent. A sniper is very lethal in bigger open areas, and the trade off is that in close quarters they are forced to use a pistol. Game becomes less class-dependent and because of that also less team-oriented and more all-round when introducing 1x sight feature no matter your scope. So when you choose to be a sniper oriented player, you know that you will be most effective on your team when covering the open grounds and trying to avoid cqb if possible. This balances the classes, or everyone would use a long-range scope, because of no drawbacks.
Also remember that you can switch weapon with the enemies you kill, so if you want to change role mid-game, you can time it with a kill. It is of course a question of taste, but personally I wish the game was even more class dependent to increase (and force) different types of play-styles."
FLIPABLE SCOPES 2/2
Bolt-action is not very good in cqb, even iron sight, I agree with that - better than pistol though.
Not saying it eliminates classes, just changes the weight towards less class specifications. Points are numerous already, many players with an offensive playstyle like me don't use armor or extra ammo in most cases anyway, because speed is so important for me- unless push playing where a bunch of frags is key where I want 2 frags in most cases.
Just saying with a system where you can flip away the long range scope, the new meta might be many more players using long range scope to both rule the open field and cqb, cqb bolt-action iron sight is one thing, semi-automatic a different story. I would probably put all points towards a mk 14 EBR high magnification scope, no armor, no extra ammo, no whatever to get that loadout and rush flanks + obj being happy with that in all situations - A lot of others might as well and the classes then be less significant, if that happens.
Maybe that does not matter, it would probably be a fun experience anyways - Who am I to judge. If a lot of players want this feature and more people enjoy the game - Cool. It could maybe be tested for an extended amount of time, then changed back if the impact is badly received, or then limited to coop.

@pacalis said in Switchable optics on sights:

Bolt-action is not very good in cqb, even iron sight, I agree with that - better than pistol though.

Debatable lol.

However, while I honestly just don't feel like quoting anything in particular, I do think it could hurt the game a tad if there was a feature like this. It might work well with the 2x optics but anything bigger than that is an obvious pick.

"Obvious pick".

Make it 6 supply points. Done.

One point for a holo. Two for a magnifier. Four for a scope. 6 for a F2S magnifier.

Make it the choice between having that, or having grenades and a pistol. Then it's not an obvious pick.

@pacalis said in Switchable optics on sights:

This balances the classes, or everyone would use a long-range scope, because of no drawbacks.

The drawback is that you have to spend more supply points and your 1x optic has a less clear target picture (or it's just a set of iron sights).

Bolt-action is not very good in cqb, even iron sight, I agree with that - better than pistol though.

And that problem can easily be fixed by making pistols better than hot garbage.

last edited by cyoce

@marksmanmax said in Switchable optics on sights:

It might work well with the 2x optics but anything bigger than that is an obvious pick.

There are already people who use iron sights because they feel the 1X optics take up too much screen space. A flipped-over magnifier is going to be a huge sight obstruction. That and a higher point cost I think would make it reasonably balanced.

@maa_bunny said in Switchable optics on sights:

@marksmanmax said in Switchable optics on sights:

It might work well with the 2x optics but anything bigger than that is an obvious pick.

There are already people who use iron sights because they feel the 1X optics take up too much screen space. A flipped-over magnifier is going to be a huge sight obstruction. That and a higher point cost I think would make it reasonably balanced.

First of all, I'd be one of those people running ironsights if they actually looked decent.

Second, I think the flipped magnifier would be far enough to the right to not really block your visibility. It's been a while since I've played PAYDAY 2 but they actually added the flip magnifier and I don't remember it eating up my screen when I was using it.

I think that allowing the magnifier on 2x optics to move so you get a 1x and a 2x wouldn't be too broken, especially considering the size of the new maps. Having a little extra zoom shouldn't fuck you over in CQB, but equipping a 3x or 4x should turn you into more of a support role and less of a CQB role.

Also, the Insurgents have the middle-of-the-road 1.5x PK-AS optic, so I think a 1x/2x optic would balance it out.

@maa_bunny said in Switchable optics on sights:

@sgt-kanyo said in Switchable optics on sights:

I support this idea fully, but imo it should be used on almost every scope that has this or similar function.
The G36KE's sight for example has an "iron sight" on top of the scope:

This gets a little different. Many sighting systems have emergency backup sights. The iron sights on top of the ACOG, Elcans, and the G-36E's sights are intended for use in case the optic breaks or malfunctions. They're simple sighting systems that aren't intended for regular use, but are more of a "better than nothing" sight. I don't think these need to be usable in the game.

Good point, but honestly I'd still use a bit of an inaccurate backup iron sight than a 3x scope indoors. I think if those backup sights worked like, bullets hit under the crosshair, than it'd still replicate the real thing, while having an option for CQB.

@marksmanmax said in [Switchable optics on sights]

I think the flipped magnifier would be far enough to the right to not really block your visibility.

It's a pretty decent obstruction.

0_1544202513719_IMG_20181207_105149.jpg

There's certainly some variation with different optics and mounts, but it generally tends to be in the way.

@sgt-kanyo said in [Switchable optics on sights]

Good point, but honestly I'd still use a bit of an inaccurate backup iron sight than a 3x scope indoors.

Realistically, iron sights, and emergency irons especially, are just too slow for fast short engagements. Often times these end up being natural point of aim engagements - which is really just a fancy way of saying firing the rifle from the shoulder without aiming. Even with normal irons in CQB usually only the front sight is used, as proper sight alignment just takes too damn long, and is usually unnecessary.

@maa_bunny said in Switchable optics on sights:

Realistically, iron sights, and emergency irons especially, are just too slow for fast short engagements. Often times these end up being natural point of aim engagements - which is really just a fancy way of saying firing the rifle from the shoulder without aiming. Even with normal irons in CQB usually only the front sight is used, as proper sight alignment just takes too damn long, and is usually unnecessary.

This may be but in this case they should at least reduce the recoil while firing without aiming. Why would i loosen my grip onthe rifle when "naturally aiming".

I see it like that: The MK 17 is my favourite rifle in-game, and because of its high calibre I want to utilize it for longer range engagements. A 2x sight would be enough for this. But clearing rooms becomes a great pain because the 2x sight is to obstructive and the recoil without ADS not manageable.

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