My question for the NWI development team.

I'll take your word for the AP situation.

Still both viable when not comparing AP and I'm not an advocate of AP regardless.

@whitby said in My question for the NWI development team.:

95%+ of people yet the forums disproportionately reflect the casuals.

There goes me reading your posts.

@whitby said in My question for the NWI development team.:

I guarantee this 3-4 shot kill with rifle rounds mess will be absolutely gone on my server within 4 hours of the modding tools being released. (If it's possible.)

https://forums.focus-home.com/topic/32703/heavy-armour-too-overpowered/3

The questions of will it be possible and when weigh heavily on me too.

I'd love to see a poll conducted across everybody who has put 20+ hours into Sandstorm. From my interactions with strangers ingame the TTK seems to be a problem for 95%+ of people yet the forums disproportionately reflect the casuals.

Most of my experience with Insurgency (2014 Standalone) and Insurgency Sandstorm is from the Checkpoint modes (though I did play a good deal of the INS mod. I still have nightmares about the original Sinjar)

It seems like most people here are talking about bullets not doing enough damage, but for me the other part of the equation is overall weapons handling. Sandstorm seems to have a LOT more recoil aim displacement, a lot more screen shake and camera animations, and a much slower "settling time"

In the INS Mod and Insurgency 2014 standalone, it was really easy to double, triple, or magdump guns on semi auto, with each shot quickly settling back on your original point of aim for a fast follow up shot.

In Sandstorm, it feels like not only does the recoil feel twice as high for every gun, but the time it takes for your sights to settle back to its original position (and with Sandstorm having larger maps overall and longer engagement distances, this recoil definiitely feels more exaggerated). As a result, player rates of fire are way down.

If you have both the standalone game and Sandstorm, try this out:

In both games, grab an M16A4, switch it to semi, then go into any random level and try shooting 5 shots accurately into something as fast as you can. You'll probably notice that you can do this much faster in INS 2014 than Sandstorm. I'd be totally fine if I had to triple tap everyone with 5.56 to kill them if it didn't take so long to get my sights back on target every time I fired. This is where most of my frustration is, personally

@slazenger Haha okay bye. Does that mean we no longer have to listen to you acting all entitled on the forums?

@tooth-decay
If asking a simple question to the devs (unanswered) that is one everyone's minds is acting entitled, despite at the end of every single weekly livestream they say they will respond, you will find that they don't care about you as much as me or anyone else.

Definitely not the people who played the prequel.

@slazenger said in My question for the NWI development team.:

Refunded.

I'm not at the point of refunding the copies I've purchased but I certainly cannot leave a positive review of the game if it is released without lethality and with all the bugs. They briefly mentioned what would be included in mod support and cited immaterial stuff like weapon model replacements. You're not in the minority for being concerned, I cannot understand why so few people are here on the forums vocalising their frustration.

@slazenger They have repeatedly said that they won’t be changing the TTK. I’m sure you have heard them say that, however you still feel a need to be specifically told by a dev that the TTK won’t be changed.

And nobody cares that you refunded. It just makes you look childish for being upset that NWI didn’t specifically cater to you

@tooth-decay

In all fairness it turns out the entire damage model is completely broken. Perhaps it's not what NWI intended. Hopefully.

last edited by Whitby

@whitby You are right right the damage model, but Slazenger is here because he wants everything a one shot kill.

last edited by Tooth Decay

@tooth-decay

By all means quote me something he said which demonstrates I'm wrong, but I thought he wanted something closer to Ins2014. I don't recall anybody on here advocating every shot which hits anything should be a kill.

@whitby ins2014 was pretty much everything’s a one shot kill since everyone used AP. Of course I’m oversimplificating, shots the the limbs were usually not a one shot, and I don’t think Slazenger wants shots to the limbs to be a one shot kill either. But you generally aim for the chest, so the majority of kills in ins2014 were one shot.

@tooth-decay

When bullets enter your vital organs you should die. Disliking requiring multiple rifle rounds to kill an unarmoured target with shots to vitals is fair and reasonable - Sandstorm falsely advertises as a "high lethality" shooter.

last edited by Whitby

@whitby said in My question for the NWI development team.:

When bullets enter your vital organs you should die. Disliking requiring multiple rifle rounds to kill an unarmoured target with shots to vitals is fair and reasonable.

Of course, and I hope NWI makes it a one shot kill to the chest with intermediate rounds. But in the previous Insurgency it was effectively a one shot kill to the chest regardless of how much armor they had since everyone used AP ammo.

@tooth-decay

Made for better gameplay than CoD/Battlefield at least. If it was that or what we have in Sandstorm currently, I'd take that any day. I can't speak for him but he's not a crybaby, he has a point.

The compromise is they make armour armour-sized and make bullets hurt people though.

@whitby said in My question for the NWI development team.:

@tooth-decay

When bullets enter your vital organs you should die. Disliking requiring multiple rifle rounds to kill an unarmoured target with shots to vitals is fair and reasonable - Sandstorm falsely advertises as a "high lethality" shooter.

That's a gross over-simplification. My liver is a vital organ. So is my stomach. A bullet hole in either isn't likely to kill me before the end of a Sandstorm match. Hell, the typical time for tension pneumothorax (gunshot wound to a lung) to kill someone is about 45 minutes - if left untreated - and proper first aid for that takes about 30 seconds.

To really kill a human like we see in Sandstorm, you need to kit the brain, brain stem, or upper spinal chord. Those are all pretty small targets. The best alternative is to cause major bleeding. The heart, aorta, pulmonary veins and arteries, superior and inferior vena cava, and femoral arteries will cause loss of consciousness in between 30 seconds and 5 minutes. All of these are located within about a 6" wide box in the center of the chest. This is what people shooting "center mass" are aiming for.

Outside of these target zones, gunshot wounds can be remarkably survivable. The notion that a single rifle shot anywhere in the torso has a high likelihood of immediate incapacitation is a myth.

@maa_bunny

If you hit bone, the heart or lungs that person isn't going to continue fighting. The person hit becomes aware of it extremely quickly. Incapacitation shots in reality should be kills in a video game. To avoid RNG, I don't advocate shattering somebody's elbow with a rifle round should be a kill, but the immediate vitals should be.

Hitting the brain stem prevents a person pulling the trigger, of course it's a prime target. You lose your heart though, you're not going to spend the next 15 minutes sprinting around the map headshotting people.

@whitby Maybe, maybe not. There are plenty of stories of soldiers being shot, even critically, and not even noticing until after the battle. US Army doctrine for battlefield first aid stresses eliminating the threat before rending aid to anyone. This often means that soldiers who've been shot continue fighting as best they can, until it's safe enough for care. Or they provide aid for themselves.

As I've said before, wounding mechanics of bullets are complex. The idea of hit points and damage values are a pretty significant abstraction for the purposes of the game. Can a single rifle shot to the torso plausibly kill someone? Yes, absolutely. Are multiple rifle shots to the torso plausibly survivable? Yes, absolutely. Trying to argue one way or the other as "realistic" is over-simplifying reality.

This is not a REALSIM!!!!!!!!!!

I use the SVD as my gun of preference & it is definitely a one shot kill

If I use an Auto it is usually a quick burst that kills

Majority of people I spec if I am dead just spam the crap out of an enemy & would be lucky to hit a barn literally. Then cry "bad hitreg"

Learn to aim

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