Where the hell is ship customization?

@jamodon player skill and ones own perception of there skills obfuscate any quantifiable numbers you can come up with... if player A thinks they are good but are actually bad then according to them DE is under powered and so on. Also there is no way to quantify that all the best players are spread out in their choices of races to play... you could very well have a situation where 3/4s the skilled player base play the same race then its going to look like whatever race that is is woefully overpowered.

last edited by imptastic

@imptastic said in Where the hell is ship customization?:

@jamodon player skill and ones own perception of there skills obfuscate any quantifiable numbers you can come up with... if player A thinks they are good but are actually bad then according to them DE is under powered and so on. Also there is no way to quantify that all the best players are spread out in their choices of races to play... you could very well have a situation where 3/4s the skilled player base play the same race then its going to look like whatever race that is is woefully overpowered.

No balance is definitely quantifiable. As a matter of fact we've been addressing balance via quantifiable measures since the closed beta and we've come a long way.

There are both qualitative and quantitative aspects to balance, but overwhelmingly it comes down to quantitative assessment and values, like the amount of health ships have, or how much damage they do.

I would heed Jamodon's input as he was involved with the closed beta and has a solid grasp on the game and its mechanics already.

Yeah there where problems with balance and some stupid stuff in BFA1. But why not just leave custom system and give most op stuff(like nova canons and stasis) to flagships and leave customization alone? I mean crew and favours were pretty impactfull still and reason while most of skills and upgrades were ignored was not due to "bad customization" per se but due to Tau owherwhelming and stasis meta.

I get it what spam AOE control killed most of the builds, but remove ALL cutomization system cz you cant balance it? Thats just lazy work from dev team.

And yeah so we removed all this horrible customization system and addedthis perfect 2 skills for 1 ship, 2 upgrades for whole fleet, what changed? Most the BS from first BFA is till here : orcs still ramspam, imperial still nova spam, tau still sitting on their bums obliterating everyone from max distance,eldar main is still synonym for masochist. Yeah we won war against stasis, but if cost of this is WHOLE ship customiastion i count this as Pyrrhic victory.

I was on full hype for necrons but i have like 4 ship types with no customization, what general and unique strats i suppose to do with them? All i can do is focus flagship and teleport-bomb as necrons, not because i want it but because I LITERALY DONT HAVE ANY OTHER OPTIONS. Not just on paper, not on theory, i dont have customization, i dont have ship difference, devs cutted down every my possible choice. If this is how we balance strategy games now by cutting all strategies and choices exept that only 1 semi-balanced...

Well i dont see why dev team even bothers to develop strategy came if they want in the end to limit every single option for glory of balance and simplicity.

Ps
To make thing clear i was SM main in BFA1.

last edited by Lenin

how is ork ramspam BS? who are you playing and how are you getting hit? Tau are pretty bad compared to the other factions and have been since the invitational beta, Novas are stronger in this now that they were in 1 by the end. DE and Craftworld are great with DE being op in previous beta. There was no customisation in 1 at high levels mp as you forced to bring certain things no matter what with only 1 or 2 upgrade slots that were actual choices. I've already played with more viable diverse fleets in this than I ever did in one.

I was also sad to see ship customisation gone 😞 but honestly until we know what some of the locked skills are (well rather I havent unlocked them yet so no clue whats in there?) its hard to say we wont have any customisation at all....

It does matter which ship you take as a flagship now, which I like. And losing the flagship SHOULD have consequences for the game. Like loss of morale for the rest of the fleet or somesuch, not sure if thats in the game now or not?

Losing the flagship gives the rest of your fleet a morale hit and you lose access to the rally skill

Ah thanks for that 🙂 yea thats a pretty big hit to take as morale is a huge issue in the game currently!

@woolypeanut as long as player skill is unbalanced people will always perceive aspects of the game as unbalanced which is just as bad as actual imbalance. You think skilled people are the only ones that write reviews or post on forums? Sure you could probably get it it pretty close by the numbers but your never gonna flesh it out enough to stop complaining and that complaining while fair or not will determine the classification your game gets in terms of balance. 12 factions with 10 different play styles will always have favorites in certain match ups... some factions will have the edge of others inherently simply because the play styles are contrary.

@neighbor-kid said in Where the hell is ship customization?:

With all that customization it caused for a terrible experience in multiplayer in armada 1. so bad that with in a months time the amount of players in multiplayer dropped to dismal levels. this customization is to not overpower 1 persons fleet at being a level 10. This is way better than the first game.

Who gives a shit. Multiplayer PvP doesn't matter. It's not where the player count is and it never has been. They are crippling the game (no autocast, no tac cog, no progression outside 1v1 ranked PvP, no proper fleet customization) to appeal to a tiny fraction of the playerbase. It will kill them, and frankly if they think this is a good idea, good riddance. They are ripping out the features that BFGA got praised for the most because of the whining of a the tiny PvP contingent on forums.

@lenin said in Where the hell is ship customization?:

Yeah there where problems with balance and some stupid stuff in BFA1. But why not just leave custom system and give most op stuff(like nova canons and stasis) to flagships and leave customization alone? I mean crew and favours were pretty impactfull still and reason while most of skills and upgrades were ignored was not due to "bad customization" per se but due to Tau owherwhelming and stasis meta.

I get it what spam AOE control killed most of the builds, but remove ALL cutomization system cz you cant balance it? Thats just lazy work from dev team.

And yeah so we removed all this horrible customization system and addedthis perfect 2 skills for 1 ship, 2 upgrades for whole fleet, what changed? Most the BS from first BFA is till here : orcs still ramspam, imperial still nova spam, tau still sitting on their bums obliterating everyone from max distance,eldar main is still synonym for masochist. Yeah we won war against stasis, but if cost of this is WHOLE ship customiastion i count this as Pyrrhic victory.

I was on full hype for necrons but i have like 4 ship types with no customization, what general and unique strats i suppose to do with them? All i can do is focus flagship and teleport-bomb as necrons, not because i want it but because I LITERALY DONT HAVE ANY OTHER OPTIONS. Not just on paper, not on theory, i dont have customization, i dont have ship difference, devs cutted down every my possible choice. If this is how we balance strategy games now by cutting all strategies and choices exept that only 1 semi-balanced...

Well i dont see why dev team even bothers to develop strategy came if they want in the end to limit every single option for glory of balance and simplicity.

Ps
To make thing clear i was SM main in BFA1.

Agreed Necrons really need more ship options, especially in the face of losing all their mobility with how the devs are handling ID. It’s especially grating that the faction that had the most need for new ships got only one (Cartouche, Reaper/Kopesh were already Cannon) while the Druhkari got SEVENTEEN, more than twice the entire Necron roster. Even just adding the energy drain Cairn as a second BB would help.

@DatonKallandor The PvP contingent were the ones remaining when everyone else had had their fill of the game and the ones that kept the community alive.

@brohanbroski
Problem is mate what if things will be left as it is, pvp players from BFA2 will be the only people who will play game. And as i remind you many people like BFA for single player experience and many people hated PvP due to massive Tau\Orc infestation.

last edited by Lenin

@lenin why would single player people not get the game for the amazing campaign
as a mostly pvp person in BFG1 because ai was too easy
i will be spending most of my time in the amazing campaigns in BFG2
they really dont need to fear losing single player buyers because the campaigns are damn epic
(atleast if they didnt do some wonky changes since beta)

@brohanbroski said in Where the hell is ship customization?:

@DatonKallandor The PvP contingent were the ones remaining when everyone else had had their fill of the game and the ones that kept the community alive.

Again, who cares. The game being "alive" literally doesn't matter, because this isn't an MMO. Players aren't paying a subscription. It doesn't matter if they stay for 3 years after the game came out or if they stop playing a week after. The devs get paid the same.

Here's what the reality of RTS games is: You make a great singleplayer and coop content. People buy the game, play that great content and are done. And when you release the next game or an expansion, those people will buy that too, because they had fun before. And it doesn't matter how long it takes them until they are done. What matters is they had fun with it.

Or you can cripple your singleplayer and coop content and your mechanics to satisfy the PvP crowd. People buy the game, hate it. A tiny fraction, the PvP players, might even stick around. Congratulations. Now a much smaller number of people will (possibly!) buy your expansion or next game.

Player retention doesn't fucking matter when you are not being paid by playtime. Player satisfaction does. And it is simply better business sense to satisfy the majority of your players, rather than the minority - and the majority play singleplayer exclusively.

last edited by DatonKallandor

@ashardalon said in Where the hell is ship customization?:

@lenin why would single player people not get the game for the amazing campaign
as a mostly pvp person in BFG1 because ai was too easy
i will be spending most of my time in the amazing campaigns in BFG2
they really dont need to fear losing single player buyers because the campaigns are damn epic
(atleast if they didnt do some wonky changes since beta)

Dude, one of the main reasons why single player in BFA 1 was so awesome is fact what every victory-give you something. New upgrade,new favour, new ship. You could go like: ok,ok all i have to do is win 3 more fights and then i can buy new BS, i will chose one with hangars and then i upgrade it with speed, and then i give it mechanicum favour and it will be so awesome.

Right now BFA 2 single player looks like that: oh great another 3 victories and i will buy same indentical BS to add it to last 3 clones of it which are all indentical and i cant do sh** to change it.

@lenin said in Where the hell is ship customization?:

@ashardalon said in Where the hell is ship customization?:

@lenin why would single player people not get the game for the amazing campaign
as a mostly pvp person in BFG1 because ai was too easy
i will be spending most of my time in the amazing campaigns in BFG2
they really dont need to fear losing single player buyers because the campaigns are damn epic
(atleast if they didnt do some wonky changes since beta)

Dude, one of the main reasons why single player in BFA 1 was so awesome is fact what every victory-give you something. New upgrade,new favour, new ship. You could go like: ok,ok all i have to do is win 3 more fights and then i can buy new BS, i will chose one with hangars and then i upgrade it with speed, and then i give it mechanicum favour and it will be so awesome.

Right now BFA 2 single player looks like that: oh great another 3 victories and i will buy same indentical BS to add it to last 3 clones of it which are all indentical and i cant do sh** to change it.

but how does that relate in any way to me talking about how amazing the campaign is?
you quoting me has me confused as nothing you said is related to anything i said

@ashardalon my point is what customization systems is one of the things what made single player(campaign included) so epic. Right now in BFA 2 it dosent exist ,and if it wont exist during release campaign will be worse than that one in BFA 1.

I for see the general pace and the take and hold style of battle play driving away casuals and hardcore SP fans as well as the lack of customization. For someone who could care less about MP balance the take and hold style is just tedious macro game play without the trying to stop players from timing out games aspect of to contend with its just blah. Its almost to the level of irritation i got when i saw planetary assault nodes in the first game.

last edited by imptastic

@takt said in Where the hell is ship customization?:

@solaire 1-2 viable builds in Armada 1? What. No. I play chaos like brawler with nyrgle mark, also i have slanesh helbringers as anti-eldar. And officially chaos fleet was lance & carrier fleet. And many people in multiplayer played in this style. This is 4-5 different builds. Different viable builds. My brawler builds eat almost all in multiplayerl (except ork nova spam) until space marins no release and barges started tore my cruisers to pieces. But CSM lance fleet was good vs SM. And i play Imperim and i know that there were others builds then nova spam.

There were 2 Chaos viable Chaos builds in the first game. They both were mass lance spam. The brawler build only worked against players that did not know what they were doing.

@bosie double styx was good too

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