Where the hell is ship customization?

A friend requested a refund for the game today. The reason: lack of customization.

"I unfortunately threw in my refund request today for Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2. The lack of character really kills this game for me. I f I find that customization/skirmish progression comes back (I don't play PvP so I don't care about MP) then I'll probably pick it up again. I could only play one or two matches before I became bored out of my mind."

I agree to some extent. The lack of feeling of progression, and worth of ones ships, that your "Holy Avenger" was upgraded through hours of gameplay and decked out to your own tastes, is something that I feel is missing a bit. I would probably go with the middle ground here and allow greater customization for your Battleships, and perhaps your Battle Cruisers, to make them feel more special. Leave the rest of the smaller lineships and escorts unaffected.

@lenin said in Where the hell is ship customization?:

Yeah there where problems with balance and some stupid stuff in BFA1. But why not just leave custom system and give most op stuff(like nova canons and stasis) to flagships and leave customization alone? I mean crew and favours were pretty impactfull still and reason while most of skills and upgrades were ignored was not due to "bad customization" per se but due to Tau owherwhelming and stasis meta.

I get it what spam AOE control killed most of the builds, but remove ALL cutomization system cz you cant balance it? Thats just lazy work from dev team.

And yeah so we removed all this horrible customization system and addedthis perfect 2 skills for 1 ship, 2 upgrades for whole fleet, what changed? Most the BS from first BFA is till here : orcs still ramspam, imperial still nova spam, tau still sitting on their bums obliterating everyone from max distance,eldar main is still synonym for masochist. Yeah we won war against stasis, but if cost of this is WHOLE ship customiastion i count this as Pyrrhic victory.

I was on full hype for necrons but i have like 4 ship types with no customization, what general and unique strats i suppose to do with them? All i can do is focus flagship and teleport-bomb as necrons, not because i want it but because I LITERALY DONT HAVE ANY OTHER OPTIONS. Not just on paper, not on theory, i dont have customization, i dont have ship difference, devs cutted down every my possible choice. If this is how we balance strategy games now by cutting all strategies and choices exept that only 1 semi-balanced...

Well i dont see why dev team even bothers to develop strategy came if they want in the end to limit every single option for glory of balance and simplicity.

Ps
To make thing clear i was SM main in BFA1.

If we ever end up meeting in real life, remind me to buy you a beer. This basically sums up my feelings about the "baLaNCE chANgeS" being put in place at the cost of fun, and still not doing a god damn thing for balance.

@brohanbroski said in Where the hell is ship customization?:

@DatonKallandor The PvP contingent were the ones remaining when everyone else had had their fill of the game and the ones that kept the community alive.

...What? There were plenty of us singleplayers left in the old forums. Don't take credit for something you don't hold claim to.

@ashardalon said in Where the hell is ship customization?:

@lenin why would single player people not get the game for the amazing campaign
as a mostly pvp person in BFG1 because ai was too easy
i will be spending most of my time in the amazing campaigns in BFG2
they really dont need to fear losing single player buyers because the campaigns are damn epic
(atleast if they didnt do some wonky changes since beta)

So far, the only single player we've seen is a prologue campaign that doesn't leave a great impression, and a massively gutted skirmish experience. I still have no idea why they aren't showing the other campaigns if they're the singleplayers' saving grace, because holy hell does the game look absolutely terrible to singleplayers at the moment. Hell, I know I've only got a limited window to demo the game and I gave up on it yesterday. There's nothing to do as a singleplayer.

@imptastic said in Where the hell is ship customization?:

I for see the general pace and the take and hold style of battle play driving away casuals and hardcore SP fans as well as the lack of customization. For someone who could care less about MP balance the take and hold style is just tedious macro game play without the trying to stop players from timing out games aspect of to contend with its just blah. Its almost to the level of irritation i got when i saw planetary assault nodes in the first game.

I agree, but just FYI, you can turn off Take and Hold in the skirmish options. Annoyingly, you have to do it each match though.

But yeah, Take and Hold bores the everloving piss out of me.

@skalgrim-fellaxe said in Where the hell is ship customization?:

A friend requested a refund for the game today. The reason: lack of customization.

"I unfortunately threw in my refund request today for Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2. The lack of character really kills this game for me. I f I find that customization/skirmish progression comes back (I don't play PvP so I don't care about MP) then I'll probably pick it up again. I could only play one or two matches before I became bored out of my mind."

I agree to some extent. The lack of feeling of progression, and worth of ones ships, that your "Holy Avenger" was upgraded through hours of gameplay and decked out to your own tastes, is something that I feel is missing a bit. I would probably go with the middle ground here and allow greater customization for your Battleships, and perhaps your Battle Cruisers, to make them feel more special. Leave the rest of the smaller lineships and escorts unaffected.

Aye, your friend is going to be me right at launch unless something massively changes. This is a complete waste of a game at the moment.

@romeo said in Where the hell is ship customization?:

@ashardalon said in Where the hell is ship customization?:

@lenin why would single player people not get the game for the amazing campaign
as a mostly pvp person in BFG1 because ai was too easy
i will be spending most of my time in the amazing campaigns in BFG2
they really dont need to fear losing single player buyers because the campaigns are damn epic
(atleast if they didnt do some wonky changes since beta)

So far, the only single player we've seen is a prologue campaign that doesn't leave a great impression, and a massively gutted skirmish experience. I still have no idea why they aren't showing the other campaigns if they're the singleplayers' saving grace, because holy hell does the game look absolutely terrible to singleplayers at the moment. Hell, I know I've only got a limited window to demo the game and I gave up on it yesterday. There's nothing to do as a singleplayer.

this is not a demo
its not to impress you
this is beta, for balance testing, the thing you need to do in pvp
sensible to do in pvp then
the demobeta thats so late it can only be used for some quick technical test is in january

@ashardalon as true as your statements might be allowing the preorder public play it with no ndr it may as well be a gameplay demo. People will be treating as such anyways. As a member of the closed betas can you say that the core mechanics for the average single player battle in the campaign are different than what we are seeing here? and i dont mean migrating titans or whatever.

@ashardalon said in Where the hell is ship customization?:

this is not a demo
its not to impress you
this is beta, for balance testing, the thing you need to do in pvp
sensible to do in pvp then
the demobeta thats so late it can only be used for some quick technical test is in january

Weirdly though, they still thought to include the prologue campaign and singleplayer skirmishes in it. Weird, if its only purpose in balance-testing in PvP.

It's almost as though people will also get their first impressions from playing this.

@imptastic
first of all, yes i understand that people will use it as a demo
but he asked why they allowed that part to be played first and i answered, they need testing, actual real pvp balance testing
they need people to tell them clearly that necrons are underpowered without people playing only vs ai barging in and claiming he can win with necrons afk
why did they show this part first, because this is the part they need data about
so while people might use it as a demo, unlike most games released as beta these days it isnt, its an actual beta for actual testing

and to answer your question
yes
(warning i dont know what they are changing in the time since beta and until release so dont take these tings as fact)
the ship customization from BFG1 isnt coming back
but the combination of what you can go for in the campaign map, the upgrades you can give, the research you can do
campaign has a lot more depth and customization and will be the strongpoint of the game
as someone who mostly played pvp in BFG1 i will be too busy with the campaign for hundreds of hours before pvp will be able to even interest me
and for people interested in lore there will be even more
there is so much lore and detail to find in the part of the galaxy the campaign is in you can spend hours just reading
tho not every battle will be unique ofcourse and will use the skirmishlike battle, tho with rules and upgrades and special circumstances from campaign map as added effects
wish i could say more but im pushing it already

Couldn’t agree more with a lot of the points brought up here. I really hope the devs plan to remedy this in future, but I’m not holding my breath. BFGA’s truly unique feature was its in-depth customization, and feeling of actually progressing in a game like this, not just as the nebulous, ill-defined role that the player fulfills, but seeing each ship and captain become more experienced and powerful. And removing micro intensive skills only to remove autocasting further kills the feeling of directing autonomous and capable voidships, because now they don’t even know to board an enemy right next to them unless the omniscient deity reaches down and tells them to. It’s a damn shame, but I don’t feel good buying this until customization returns. Because if it’s not my fleet, I don’t see any reason to care about commanding it.

@solaire said in Where the hell is ship customization?:

The customization in the first game was mostly fake, at least for multiplayer. In reality there were only 1-2 viable builds for each faction, sometimes not even that. In singleplayer everything was viable so i can undertand your annoyance there but this will work better for multiplayer.

most people played this game for the singleplayer, or co-op skirmish vs AI, that's why multiplayer was always dead... they really need to listen to their fans and flesh out the skirmish mode from #1 for #2. They're gonna get totally review bombed and the franchise is gonna die 😟 More people play solo than multi, why can't they accept that?

most people played this game for the singleplayer, or co-op skirmish vs AI, that's why multiplayer was always dead... they really need to listen to their fans and flesh out the skirmish mode from #1 for #2. They're gonna get totally review bombed and the franchise is gonna die 😟 More people play solo than multi, why can't they accept that?

but at least 40 more people will be playing it 3 months from now lol

last edited by imptastic

Multiplayer in BFGA1 died because the progression system meant experienced players could mop the floor with new ones even if they played only equally well. It also wasn't even very interesting, because there was an obvious best choice for most of the upgrades and crew based on the faction/weapons on the ship. I'm finding that picking upgrades in BFGA2 requires a lot more thought.

@jamodon while those were obstacles what really drove MP away was that theyre was not enough players in the first place... this isnt going to draw an esports crowd and it doesnt have moddablity that draws more casual players. Its only attractive to a smaller group in the first place. I wish you the best with getting the MP experience you want but i fear your going to be let down in the long run.

@solaire said in Where the hell is ship customization?:

The customization in the first game was mostly fake, at least for multiplayer. In reality there were only 1-2 viable builds for each faction, sometimes not even that. In singleplayer everything was viable so i can undertand your annoyance there but this will work better for multiplayer.

This is very true, however I absolutely loved the customization options in the first game. Though it would be a lot of work and impossible to balance I would still like to see it return.
Even if only one per faction is actually "viable" from a competitive PvP point of view, this wouldn't actually impact the PvP playerbase. You essentially still would have what you have now: 1 configuration per ship and fleet. However people who enjoy the campaign, customization, skirmishes and maybe even casual multiplayer would benefit greatly because for that type of gameplay you don't need to minmax everything. You could instead roleplay certain subfactions (like "fluff" lists in tabletop), create "troll" fleets or build your fleet around using fun little gimicks and wombo combos.
Is it optimal for competitive PvP? Hell no!
But is it fun and at times hilarious? Hell yeah!

In BFGA 1 I really enjoyed playing a brawling, boarding-focussed Nurgle favour chaos fleet just for fun. I clearly wouldn't expect to do as well as I would playing the meta lance-spam fleet but I had loads of fun and playing something suboptimal can also create an interesting challenge.

Limiting things like stasis bombs to the flagship is probably a good idea but I'd still love to be able to add other upgrades/customization to my ships and not just pick 2 "admiral skills" and 2 passive boni for the fleet (or parts of it).

TL;DR: adding customization would be cool, even if it's realistically only balanced around the "best" option for each ship/faction/whatever.

Honestly I dont feel like there was 'just 1 build' in pvp. Maybe if you were in a tourney or something and you needed all the edge that you could get? The upgrade system generally allowed you to build ships to encounter the enemy in which way you wanted, even if it was mostly just things related to range; it was still there.

Heck noone thought anything of the Gothic cruiser but with the 2 upgrades to lances it was pretty sweet. Give it faster torpedoes and it had a bite up close as well.

People miss the connection to their ships and the feel that is this 'their' fleet. And in a game like battlefleet that is about the worst thing that you can do, as it about half of the experience....

@demoulius There was tau which never got nerfed so bacialy all fleet builds were made by strat "can i possibly win against tau with this?". So yeah you could build many things but in the end if you want to win you had first of all think about how you will stand against 12k radius blue skin demolition team.

Old fleet costumization is gone hurrrraaaay!

It was pretty shallow anyway imo. Meta didnt give a shit about no million costumization options.

@dkard crazy fleet costumization aint coming back and thats a good thing. I couldnt disagree any harder with the points you made. I found it shallow and ultimatly redundant for PVP and it caused more trouble than good.

In the end of the day. BFGA is not a Single player only game it also features PVP and thats why fleet costumization was stream lined in order to make PVP more enjoyable and easier to balance.

@canned_f3tus And i remaind you what pvp died cz only things what were played was tau and orc, and i remind you customization is gone but oh boy oh boy, tau still op, orks till have 2 time your ship count. So yeah problem with pvp is not in customization department.

@canned_f3tus said in Where the hell is ship customization?:

@dkard crazy fleet costumization aint coming back and thats a good thing. I couldnt disagree any harder with the points you made. I found it shallow and ultimatly redundant for PVP and it caused more trouble than good.

In the end of the day. BFGA is not a Single player only game it also features PVP and thats why fleet costumization was stream lined in order to make PVP more enjoyable and easier to balance.

It's almost as if they could've made a more gutted experience for the multiplayer crowd only, rather than screwing the game for the rest of us.

Listen, I genuinely hope Tindalos does well, but no way in hell am I wasting my money based upon the current state of the game. It's half the damn game as the first one if you're a singleplayer.

@romeo said in Where the hell is ship customization?:

@canned_f3tus said in Where the hell is ship customization?:

@dkard crazy fleet costumization aint coming back and thats a good thing. I couldnt disagree any harder with the points you made. I found it shallow and ultimatly redundant for PVP and it caused more trouble than good.

In the end of the day. BFGA is not a Single player only game it also features PVP and thats why fleet costumization was stream lined in order to make PVP more enjoyable and easier to balance.

It's almost as if they could've made a more gutted experience for the multiplayer crowd only, rather than screwing the game for the rest of us.

Listen, I genuinely hope Tindalos does well, but no way in hell am I wasting my money based upon the current state of the game. It's half the damn game as the first one if you're a singleplayer.

I think saying that BFGA 2 will be half a game is a bit unfair. Compromises have to be made and theres gotta be a balance. I dont know how the campaign content will be. But hopefully it will be good. There is plenty of coop replayability.
And the PVP aspects of the game will be easier to work with.

Personally. I think the multiplayer is everything but gutted. They streamlined some features yeah but they added depth to others. For example added more mechanics to some abilities like fighters and escorts. Bigger fleet cap also adds a whole nother level of strategic depth to the game which hasnt been seen before in a BFGA game. We have more flexibility and options in creating fleet lists.

The whole costumisation system and small fleet cap in the previous game just forced people to play strict meta or get raped hard on ladder.

I think you are putting far to much stock in a game feature that was meant more for eye candy than anything else. You felt like it provided depth and options when it really didnt matter ultimatly especially if you arent playing meta.

You know what I miss most? It’s the ship naming. The fact you could name you ship, see it’s personak captain’s card, and check out all its crew in an actual fleet backdrop was amazing to me. I loved that bit, and while it did nothing for gameplay it really helped capture the granduer of 40k. It just...doesn’t feel the same without those little bits, it feels all so generic now. Especially the ui, the old one was great (thematically). I also miss the little data card you had when clicking on a ship, and the ability to set behaviors. I don’t expect them back, but want to put that out there.