Squishy Necrons

Does anyone else feel like the Necrons are too weak in this game??? You get to bring so few ships and they are just kinda sorta better.

This of course excludes the starpulse spam, which I don’t enjoy doing because I would rather depend on good positioning than cheap tactics.

From what I had heard during development, Necrons were supposed to be tanky as hell and always massively outnumbered. While also putting out a world of pain.

Totally agree, love the look of Necrons and feel however if you don’t use the starburst cheese there feel terribly underwhelming with massive cool downs on weapons fire and sooo slow ships
Kinda feels the only way to play them is blink in and use one button. One trick pony faction for me.
Or maybe I haven’t learnt how to play them yet🤷🏻♂

Glad to hear I’m not the only one. Necrons should be like a shark in the pool that you avoid at all costs unless you get into a REALLY good position to strike and cause maximum damage and then run away to avoid the retaliation you simply won’t survive lol

Agreed. As it is the only good thing about the faction is the light Cruisers, all else (especially Cruisers) are trash. If they are going to charge more than a battleship for a Scythe it should be able to take one! The unloreful lack of agility is also a huge pain, turnrates mean you get kites forever. Not to mention how they only got a grand total of one new ship to pad out the roster compared to the Druhkari’s seventeen.

I won't argue with a buff and points increase, though in my own experience, Necron have been the easiest faction in the game to win with in singleplayer. I said in another thread that I accidentally forgot to pause after positioning my fleet in a gas cloud, and when I came back, I'd already won (Medium difficulty, Imperial opponent).

I think the danger for buffing them and making them more expensive is ticking off the oh-so-important multiplayer balance. Making them that extreme will likely cause huge balance issues.

@romeo said in Squishy Necrons:

Necron have been the easiest faction in the game to win with in singleplayer.

now i understand all your wrong statements
i can beat 1500pts of chaos with 300pts of nids without using boarding or losing a ship
when fighting ai

it means nothing

@ashardalon said in Squishy Necrons:

@romeo said in Squishy Necrons:

Necron have been the easiest faction in the game to win with in singleplayer.

now i understand all your wrong statements
i can beat 1500pts of chaos with 300pts of nids without using boarding or losing a ship
when fighting ai

it means nothing

...Congrats? Doesn't change the fact that the Necron are easy as all hell to play with. Christ you're annoying.

@romeo
and you dont understand that easy and strong are not the same thing
try going afk vs a human and see how easy it is

@ashardalon said in Squishy Necrons:

@romeo
and you dont understand that easy and strong are not the same thing
try going afk vs a human and see how easy it is

Again, no faction should ever be "so easy", that you can literally leave the PC and still win. That's brutal. The only other time I can remember that was the Tau in the first game... Who were, of course, super balanced. And even then, as stupidly overpowered as the Tau were, you still couldn't go AFK vs a human with them either.

And this is to say nothing of what you can do when you're actually playing with them. I don't think there's a soul on these forums who's content with Solar Pulse just erasing enemy fleets from existence.

As I said in the original reply, I'm actually OK with making the Necron more powerful anyways... So long as they're brought back in to reality elsewhere. Bumping up the price might be all that's needed, because less ships means your opponent can afford to attack wider, which will negate some of the advantage from Pulse.

nice how you see that necrons are only pulse
they have nothing else now
but you cant put the pieces together and instead suggest a price bump instead of a sensible fix

@ashardalon said in Squishy Necrons:

nice how you see that necrons are only pulse
they have nothing else now
but you cant put the pieces together and instead suggest a price bump instead of a sensible fix

Didn't say they were only pulse then, didn't say it now? I said they get even easier to win with when actually using, and they're potent enough to AFK on their own in singleplayer. In my last reply I pointed out to you that I'm not the only one with that opinion. At no point has that point become "Necrons can only do one thing, and are utterly worthless without it". Solid attempted scarecrow though, 6/10.

Because they should be the expensive powerful ones by lore. I'm assuming your "sensible fix" involves bringing them in line with everyone else? Because so far most of your "fixes" that I've seen on other people's threads are just the worst.

@romeo Necrons need buffs not nerfs. All they have currently is starpulse spam which fails against anyone who understands how the game works. I'm down for starpulse damage being reduced from 600 to say 400, but Necrons NEED buffs in other areas such as survivability on their hulls and damage on main guns.

last edited by Solaire

Try fighting necrons as nids. Its not easy, nor fun in the current build. Either you face 4 scythes that look for your most valuable ship (ie your flagship) just so that they can teleport in and do their solarpulse spam and instakill you, which utterly demoralizes any other ships that you have. Easy pickings as you MUST spread out to avoid said Solar pulse spam and now you lack the range, speed and morale to close the distance. Or you face a Carin and scythes, or two Carin ... anyhow = Solarpulse death.

Or you face a balanced build and might even win it. That has happened to me ONCE so far. ONE Necron player out there didn't use the obvious insta-win ability and gave me a fair fight. Which I won. Despite there being bugs that can literally give necron ships tens of thousands of extra HP if you ram them as nids. To be honest there is alot to be done about game mechanics here. For my own case, I think I will stay away from MP in the final version of the game. Matches are over so fast now. Matter of 5- 10 minutes tops most cases. No matter who wins.

Edit: Oh, and yeah for those that say: "well just harpy-spam" etc. No, thats not the aim of the beta. We are supposed to balance factions against eachother. Removing things like Solar pulse spam or Harpy spam etc as META tactics.

last edited by Skalgrim Fellaxe

For the record, harpy spam doesn't really work against anyone that can kite. Just brace and rotate the targeted ship away so the flappers chase through all your allied defense turrets and die.

@skalgrim-fellaxe said in Squishy Necrons:

Try fighting necrons as nids. Its not easy, nor fun in the current build. Either you face 4 scythes that look for your most valuable ship (ie your flagship) just so that they can teleport in and do their solarpulse spam and instakill you, which utterly demoralizes any other ships that you have. Easy pickings as you MUST spread out to avoid said Solar pulse spam and now you lack the range, speed and morale to close the distance. Or you face a Carin and scythes, or two Carin ... anyhow = Solarpulse death.

Or you face a balanced build and might even win it. That has happened to me ONCE so far. ONE Necron player out there didn't use the obvious insta-win ability and gave me a fair fight. Which I won. Despite there being bugs that can literally give necron ships tens of thousands of extra HP if you ram them as nids. To be honest there is alot to be done about game mechanics here. For my own case, I think I will stay away from MP in the final version of the game. Matches are over so fast now. Matter of 5- 10 minutes tops most cases. No matter who wins.

Edit: Oh, and yeah for those that say: "well just harpy-spam" etc. No, thats not the aim of the beta. We are supposed to balance factions against eachother. Removing things like Solar pulse spam or Harpy spam etc as META tactics.

The issue with necrons is either they are overpowered or underpowered with no inbetween. They are OP with starpulse, but their ships are terrible without it. I made a comparison in another thread with the scythe cruiser as a basis, so I'll post it here to explain:
"They just aren't very good for their points right now. Lets take the baseline cruiser, the scythe harvester, and compare it to say, the apocalypse class battleship. Why that battleship? Because it is actually 14 points cheaper than the necron cruiser. So if this cruiser is more expensive than an imperial battleship than it must be at least equivalent right? Well...
Lets compare, I'll even throw in the common retribution class for extra evidence (7pts more than the cruiser):
Apocalypse Scythe Retribution
HP: 2.4k 1.6K 2.4K
Shields: 800 0 800
Total HP: 3.2k 1.6k 3.2k
Morale: 100 150 100
Turrets: 18 10 18
Troops: 18 14 18
Speed: 120 240 160
Armor: 83/67 83 83/67
Rotation: 4 10 4
Raw DPS(not counting abilities): 16.8(4.5k)/15.6(9k) 12 28.6 (4.5l)/22.2(9k)

So in short the ships in the Scythe Harvesters price range have higher raw DPS, much more health, shields (which regen faster than the harvester does I think) more turrets and more troops. The harvester has better speed and rotation (because CR v BB) but loses overall in those departments when comparing ID vs Imperial maneuver gauge. It also has flat better morale due to the necron +50 morale a racial trait. You'll notice I did not mention armor. Why? Because the armor of 83/67 gets a boost from a certain stance that is always on. This boost brings it from 83/67 to 108/92 (if I remember how armor works correctly anyways), which is vastly better than any necron ship. So the only thing the Harvester has is that it is (theoretically) faster, and starpulse, which is getting nerfed. The two mentioned ships also have abilities, one of which is a nova cannon (200-400 damage, aoe, -100 morale, faster cooldown than pulse I think) and torpedoes (8x 90D, 45 reload) but I left those out because one is a skill shot so DPS is variable (it will always hit a jump on cooldown necron ship for 720D though) The other is disabled if you get to close, so it can be avoided. Also to take into consideration is that necron can always be critted because no shields, while all other races do not suffer from this. On stances, they have the same reload as the imperials, a splitshot not useful in a direct comparison (or most of the time) and a nearly useless healing ability. To extrapolate on the uselessness of the healing ability: despite using starpulse, today I had a scythe harvester lose 1v1 to a emperor. Despite killing all of its ord with starpulse. Oh, and there was a dauntless there too but he got starpulsed. I might have done my math wrong somewhere but this really doesn't seem to be equivalent point for point (aka balanced). Maybe I'm missing something?"

I also forgot to mention the apocalypse is mostly AP damage to, which is effective against the crons.

@jamodon Yes I know there are counters. I just made an example, as in I didn't use any of the obvious "cheats/OP-metas" etc. And when neither of us, Necron nor Nid, did that - I won because the Necron are one of the weakest factions just by going by the stats.

Fair enough @Skalgrim-Fellaxe. Also are necron players using mass recall? Even with a nerfed starpulse, inertialess drive in, blow focused target up, mass recall may compensate to a degree for their awful stats given their price. They still probably need a buff though.

@jamodon said in Squishy Necrons:

Fair enough @Skalgrim-Fellaxe. Also are necron players using mass recall? Even with a nerfed starpulse, inertialess drive in, blow focused target up, mass recall may compensate to a degree for their awful stats given their price. They still probably need a buff though.

It and pyramidal reconstruction are essentially must takes. While a lot of other skills are really cool and I would love to use, like lightning link...
You get critted all the time. Pyramidal is needed to (kinda) offset that, or you fleet is dead in the water (void?) pretty quickly
Mass recall is needed because without a maneuver gauge you can't get anywhere and its easy to be separated. Its less useful to starting big battle and more for getting your ships back together in what would otherwise take like 3 min to cross distances (because again, no all ahead full/turn).

@jamodon Not in any matches I'v been in so far. They havn't needed to as they all just rolled over me with pulse-spam.

@jamodon said in Squishy Necrons:

Fair enough @Skalgrim-Fellaxe. Also are necron players using mass recall? Even with a nerfed starpulse, inertialess drive in, blow focused target up, mass recall may compensate to a degree for their awful stats given their price. They still probably need a buff though.

@skalgrim-fellaxe said in Squishy Necrons:

@jamodon Not in any matches I'v been in so far. They havn't needed to as they all just rolled over me with pulse-spam.

To clarify my post, I mean if they are playing honestly (ie not pulse spam). With pulse spam you can just do whatever.

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