Squishy Necrons

@nemesor-xanxas Pulse spam honestly doesn't seem that strong either.

It dicks over close range and bottom heavy setups.

I'd be happy with some nerf to Star Pulse damage and its upgrade (maybe reduce damage in both by 25-35%) to reduce the spam (having flashbacks of BFGA1 Eldar lances...) as long as other areas are buffed.

Necron ships get critted very easily due to no shields, so like @Nemesor-Xanxas said Pyramidal Reconstruction is pretty much a must. Can we get some increased resistance to them, or them being self-repaired faster than they currently are?

More about durability, passive HP regen feels too low. I think its base value is 1 HP/sec; can we get it to around 3-4 HP/sec, so that at least Time-To-Kill increases? A bit more maximum HP would help too.

Given that Inertialess Drives are their only real way of repositioning, can we get a reduced cooldown? Someone in the Steam forums also suggested tying the cooldown to distance travelled, in the same way other factions have a Combustion Gauge. I'm not sure if right now we can choose the orientation of the ship when it reappears (like in BFGA1's Jump), but if we don't I hope we could because it can help with the reorientation (due to having no High Energy Turns).

With these changes, maybe Necron ships become more worth their huge point cost. We'll see though; it might still be needed to reduce it. Also, can we get more ship variety? Doesn't have to be much; some more variants with different armaments would be enough to provide ar least 4-6 more line ships, especially on the heavier departments.

last edited by Necroledo

@nemesor-xanxas

Yeah, for the record I agree with you: If their signature ability gets nerfed, they're going to be weakened down, for sure (Though I would imagine even down at 400 damage, it will still allow them to insta-wipe any squadrons & torpedoes). I'm still hesitant to buff them much though - they're extremely effective at range, giving them a weakness up close might not be the end of the world.

Also, has anyone else noticed that Hull Cauterization says it lowers the Max Hull Points on the tooltip, but doesn't have any downsides in-game?

@romeo said in Squishy Necrons:

@nemesor-xanxas

Yeah, for the record I agree with you: If their signature ability gets nerfed, they're going to be weakened down, for sure (Though I would imagine even down at 400 damage, it will still allow them to insta-wipe any squadrons & torpedoes). I'm still hesitant to buff them much though - they're extremely effective at range, giving them a weakness up close might not be the end of the world.

Also, has anyone else noticed that Hull Cauterization says it lowers the Max Hull Points on the tooltip, but doesn't have any downsides in-game?

Well yeah, the entire point of the ability is an anti-ord tool since it’s all they had in tt besides turrets, and Necron fighters are terrible for some inexplicable reason. They have issues at ranged, because a lot of fleets shred them at it either through superior range/DPS/AP (Chaos, Both Tau) or can just stealth and kite them into oblivion with said stealth+speed and kill them at range (all three Eldar factions), which accounts for half the factions. Hell, ad mech also shreds them at range because nova cannon spam. A single volley reduced a cairn to less than 15%hp, and that was after jumping out of some. They aren’t good close either without starpulse, as the close range factions can either ram/board then into oblivion(nids/orks), become much tangier versions of them with AP rounds and shields by choosing brace (IN, Ad mech) or do that AND board them into oblivion (SM). Sure they don’t miss, but even then at max range (9k) they still have lower DPS than equivalent point cost imperial ships.

The issue with Necrons is that they are supposed to be a quality over quantity faction. It’s one of the first things the racial card says. It is possible to interpret that wording to only mean better in tankyness. But they aren’t that Tanky. To go back to my earlier comparison, ignoring the imperials better armor, Necron ships regain 1hp per second. The imperial shield is an additional 800 hp on equivalent ships, and recovers in I believe a minute. That means that the imperial ship regenerates just over THIRTEEN TIMES AS FAST. Sure, it doesn’t block damage when down, but even accounting for that I don’t think I’ve ever seen a ship of mine Regen that much hp, let alone multiple times a match. And it can be significantly upgraded, and blocks crits/lightning strikes. So they don’t have tank, they don’t have DPS, we’ve discussed speed and maneuverability, they don’t have variety, and all their abilities besides the one getting nerfed are either patches that somewhat cover the gaping design flaws, or useless. So, in other words, they don’t have quality, and they certainly don’t have quantity.

The big problem here is 1v1 against cheaper ships more expensive Necron vessels often lose. Their escorts lose to all others regularly, including ork ones. Their light Cruisers explode when looked at. Their Cruisers cost more than a battleship while obviously not being their equal, and lose to them obviously. The Reaper is a train wreck. And the cairn has repeatedly lost 1v1s as I watched. They insta-lose to hive ships due to boarding. They get kited into oblivion by most Eldar ships. Just last night I saw one get killed 1v1 by a demiurge battleship and another get brought down to 20% by a Tau battleship before even entering range and require a recall bailout. I killer one fairly easily with two Druhkari cruisers when I was playing them, and I lost another to a mega Rok. What I am saying is that they very much aren’t worth their points, and they have to be. By using a smaller fleet, variety (lol), tactics, skills, and capping are all limited, meaning if your opponent has an equal stat total in ships he has the advantage. Bu the stat total isn’t equal. Furthermore, each loss hurts in a small unit, and with crits and no boarding blocking shield loss comes easy. This is why balance wise the smaller fleet is supposed to have a slightly higher stat total to balance these issues, not taking into account stance advantages and so on, which is firmly against the Necrons atm. I am not asking for lore accurate cairns. I am just asking that they be worth their point costs in imperial ships. I am going to play this game no matter what, as it is my sole chance to play as a Necron protagonist. In the sole other game with the role, they remained clear antagonists, and even in their own books more than half is imperial viewpoint. As a Necron fan, this game is a once in my lifetime opportunity to actually play as my faction. I don’t want to win even most engagements, I just want to win enough to enjoy myself as I do so.

Oh, and on the matter of hull cauterization, I think the hp bar never says the amount you lose, but the hard to see dark grey bar where you damage is on the hp bar decreases as you Regen. Never regenerated fully, so can’t confirm, but I think it got smaller. Can’t see it that well though.

@nemesor-xanxas

All decent points, and for the record, I wouldn't argue with the Necrons being made a "two ships vs an army" kind of race, because I don't give a rat's behind about making things perfect for the multiplayer crowd. I don't find they struggle much against the Tau (Just teleport in behind the Tau and giggle as you proceed to blow them to hell and back while they turn around), and for Chaos try to do the same but cripple their morale with that Darkness ability they've got. And for sure, they'll get their teeth kicked in at close range without Star Pulse, but I feel like they should have that anyways - a race that is pretty good at range and yet still good up close wouldn't be very fun to play with or against. And yeah, ship cauterization definitely needs to scale based upon ship size (It's borderline worthless on the Cairn, even with the gas cloud bonus and double the base rate).

If they do want to make the Necron stronger, I hope they'll bump the costs as well. I don't want another Tau situation from the first game. 😛

@romeo said in Squishy Necrons:

@nemesor-xanxas

All decent points, and for the record, I wouldn't argue with the Necrons being made a "two ships vs an army" kind of race, because I don't give a rat's behind about making things perfect for the multiplayer crowd. I don't find they struggle much against the Tau (Just teleport in behind the Tau and giggle as you proceed to blow them to hell and back while they turn around), and for Chaos try to do the same but cripple their morale with that Darkness ability they've got. And for sure, they'll get their teeth kicked in at close range without Star Pulse, but I feel like they should have that anyways - a race that is pretty good at range and yet still good up close wouldn't be very fun to play with or against. And yeah, ship cauterization definitely needs to scale based upon ship size (It's borderline worthless on the Cairn, even with the gas cloud bonus and double the base rate).

If they do want to make the Necron stronger, I hope they'll bump the costs as well. I don't want another Tau situation from the first game. 😛

Agree with you on the Tau situation, orks were almost worse though. Anyways, I mean the strategy is sound there but the issue is that those fleets have a maneuver gauge, and can thus get out of the way. And Necrons not only can’t catch up because they just jumped, but need to get close to jump in the first place. I wouldn’t mind points increase in exchange for buffs, but the increase would have to be in a way that they are now worth their weight in enemy ships. Say x stats per point is average, than the buff would have to make the ships worth 1x per point, maybe 1.0001 because outnumbering (I’m not a dev so Szarekh knows how right that just was numerically) however much they buff the points, That equivalence is what is both missing and necessary. It doesn’t need to be precise, maybe Subfaction favors will come out and be amazing, but that should be the general area.

last edited by Nemesor Xanxas