New slavic insurgent voice is excellent.

I've done a lot of whinging about things and bug reporting. I'm scared to death NWI's going to release a game with laggy maps, broken gunplay mechanics and countless game ruining bugs on Wednesday. (This patch really has me worried...)

The new voiceover is absolutely excellent though, from the dialogue to the delivery, that voice actor nailed it.

Voice acting is amazing and it is fun to listen to russian curse all over the game. But it is really confusing because russians, as far as I can tell, fighting by government side. And government troops cannot be insurgent. Whether russian voiceover for insurgents is just a good idea came too late to reassemble the whole game and its backstory OR devs didn't do their homework on Syrian war (unlikely) and made russians bad guys by default (my paranoia tells me it is the reason).

So maybe it is good idea to make this voiceover available to security forces too?

P.S. Бабушка медведь водка ушанка балалайка. Сука бля.

@mmh The game is not based in real life conflicts as far as im concerned, its definitely inspired, but they didnt call them US vs ISIS or something, its so they could take creative liberties as far as the customization and stuff like that goes.

95% of Chechens are muslims. Russian is commonly spoken there. ISIS are essentially a mercenary army, as are most of the groups in the Syrian region. There's money to be made and there's plenty of very capable fighters in Chechnya who're sympathetic to Jihad. Russian accents on the Insurgent side is very strongly rooted in reality.

I've a friend who collected the passports of the people his squad killed over there (it's kinda like a modern day dog tags thing), anecdotally, the toughest and most capable jihadis they fought were Chechens.

last edited by Whitby

@whitby The thing is Chechens (ISIS fighters) or other mercenaries from ex-Soviet countries speak equally bad russian or english or at least they have strong accent. And in game voice is so clear I wish I sounded like that. So this is bit confusing to me. But I agree that may be not such a big problem for everyone else.
Considering "creative liberties" seems like I must admit that my concerns about dev's ill intents are unreasonable.

(Btw my paranoia tells me not to believe you about your rambo friend)

@MMH

I couldn't tell bad Russian from good Russian, all sounds the same to me as I'm a Westerner uneducated in such things. Do you speak Russian / is the accent that far off?

As for the passports, think about it. Every one of those fighters needs one to get to the conflict and get back afterwards. They keep them on their person as they can't risk keeping it elsewhere. Imagine if you were in China and lost your passport, you've got to go to the embassy for whichever country you're from. What's the equivalent of that in Syria? Now with that in mind, it's a solid idea if you win an engagement against the jihadis to see where they're coming from and who they are, especially if that information hasn't been destroyed by their brothers before you take the position with their bodies. Knowing your enemy is important. Is it really such a stretch they get kept as souvenirs? You don't have to be Rambo to be the guy in your squad who's collecting them. Calling in an airstrike doesn't make you Rambo but it does leave bodies.

last edited by Whitby

@whitby said in New slavic insurgent voice is excellent.:

95% of Chechens are muslims. Russian is commonly spoken there. ISIS are essentially a mercenary army, as are most of the groups in the Syrian region. There's money to be made and there's plenty of very capable fighters in Chechnya who're sympathetic to Jihad. Russian accents on the Insurgent side is very strongly rooted in reality.

I've a friend who collected the passports of the people his squad killed over there (it's kinda like a modern day dog tags thing), anecdotally, the toughest and most capable jihadis they fought were Chechens.

if your story about your friend is true, he is right about the Chechens. Though if he's American technically what he did was illegal.

Anyway, the part about ISIS being a mercenary army isn't true. They don't really have "mercenaries" (especially not Russians). They have unpaid volunteers. That includes Chechens. Mercenaries work for money. Volunteers don't.

That's what annoyed me about the devs calling the Slavic accent guy a "mercenary". There are no "Russian" Mercenaries fighting in insurgent groups. That would be ridiculous, because in Syria (where the Russians are) the insurgents are fighting against the Russians. Countries these days have very specific laws prohibiting contractors (mercenaries) from engaging in actions which conflict with their country's interests. The russian "mercenaries" are fighting with Assad and are used as bullet/bomb fodder in combat operations against anti-Assad insurgents.

So it makes zero sense whatsoever that they would put a merc in the insurgent team. Anyway, to solve this issue all you'd have to do is change the name "mercenary" to "volunteer". Problem solved.

last edited by Dark1202

@Dark1202

Can't speak from anything near a first hand account, but I've read the opposite. My understanding was prior to the situation down there turning out of ISIS's favour, they ran out of funds and a good portion of their mercenaries defected to other jihadist splinter groups. Yes there are unpaid people down there fighting, I will not dispute that as it's a fact. If I was picked up on Facebook by some recruiter and agreed to head out to Syria tomorrow, it'd be through the process of indoctrination to be fodder. They have (or at least had) quite a few professional fighters when they were having the successes they had, many of which were Chechens.

last edited by Whitby

@whitby said in New slavic insurgent voice is excellent.:

@Dark1202

Can't speak from anything near a first hand account, but I've read the opposite. My understanding was prior to the situation down there turning out of ISIS's favour, they ran out of funds and a good portion of their mercenaries defected to other jihadist splinter groups. Yes there are unpaid people down there fighting, I will not dispute that as it's a fact. If I was picked up on Facebook by some recruiter and agreed to head out to Syria tomorrow, it'd be through the process of indoctrination to be fodder. They have (or at least had) quite a few professional fighters when they were having the successes they had, many of which were Chechens.

Hey bro, if you can cite the sources to prove me wrong I'll gladly shut the fuck up about it. I love being wrong. Means I learned something.

@dark1202

Chechen militants referenced + apparently ISIS will issue you a wife unlike the Marine Corps...
https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2014/07/28/ISIS-Opens-Official-Marriage-Office-in-Syria-Offers-Honeymoons-to-Jihadist-Couples/

"Many of their adherents are purely economic actors, recruited with offers of competitive salaries, health insurance and benefits paid to their families should they be killed in battle."
"Some recruits just need a job."
"Groups compete to attract the best fighters. Those with low budgets may choose a radical religious line to attract foreign fanatics who are not as professional as fighters motivated by money, but will work for just room and board."
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg23531390-700-anatomy-of-terror-what-makes-normal-people-become-extremists/

Love the title on this, lines up with the point I made regarding them running out of finances before they really fell apart. Demonstrates foreign fighters were typically paid more.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2016/01/isis-fighters-receive-pay-cut.html

I cannot find the article I really wish to cite, I recognise the above only goes so far. I don't think it's much of a stretch to state a particularly experienced fighter from Chechnya might be paid above the average and I'd also argue that the low wages referenced here look much more lucrative to people who don't live in the developed world.

Now having said this, would they be defined as mercenaries? I can provide references there are (or were?) lots of guys fighting for ISIS drinking alcohol and doing shitloads of drugs. I'd argue those guys are there for the money and not for the 72 virgins and I'd argue they're mercenaries. I recognise the counterpoint that half the Americans in the middle east are only there for the college tuition programme and my definition maybe gets a bit awkward at that point. Now having said that, when ISIS ran out of cash, many of these guys switched employers to other radical groups who'd pay them better. Soldiers tend not to do that.

last edited by Whitby

@whitby

So the first article isn't working for money, it's working for women. That doesn't meet the definition of "mercenary". The second one implies that foreign volunteers just get room and board. That's not a mercenary either.

On the third article,

This part of your statement
"I'd argue those guys are there for the money and not for the 72 virgins"

Directly conflicts with the final quote within the article stating:
"It seems pretty safe to assume that most of these recruits aren’t in it for the money, so who knows what impact the salary cuts will have."

All that being said, the third article you cited implies that there exist foreign fighters that get paid. So even if most may not acknowledge it themselves, two things can be deducted from that article:

  1. Technically they meet the definition of mercenary as defined by article 47 of the Geneva conventions
  2. Some individuals may exist that are fighting for money

So I guess you're right. There do seem to be mercenaries in ISIS, at the very least by the technical definition. And though the article you cited implies that most aren't, it also implies that it is possible that there may be some individuals that are motivated by money. So I was wrong on that end. Well done.

Thank you for teaching me something new.

last edited by Dark1202

@whitby @Dark1202

So I've googled "what language ISIS speaks" and found this yellowish article "The Islamic State speaks Russian" by Dr. Alisa Fainberg (the International Institute for Counter-Terrorism (ICT) which I've never heard before because I've never looked)
So she says (http://www.academia.edu/21652590/ISIS_speaks_Russian) :

  • there are a lot of russian mersenaries in ISIS

  • they speak russian (even if it is not naitive language to them)

  • ISIS have a lot of translators to bungh of languages included russian

  • ISIS propoganda pay special attention to russian auditory

Сonclusion: russian swear may be heard in syrian battlefields, but it will be with accent. Because most of the best russian-speaking ISIS stuff must be working for the marketing department and even them not so good at it:

"Language analysis of content shows that articles are written by Caucasian authors with typical speech patterns and grammar mistakes. Russian language is seems to be second native for authors (since it serves as a bridge language for different Caucasian ethnic groups), but it was partly arabized due to long term stay in Syria."

My point is Devs doing fine job. The only problem is they hired actor with such pure russian. And for russan-speaking players his melodic voice belongs to christian slavic russians, ukranians, belorus which must fight AGAINST ISIS/insurgents, not for them, as some muslims from ex-Soviet countries.
(Same problem, same arguments https://steamcommunity.com/app/581320/discussions/0/1743353798891118570/)

But I bet Devs just don't know this nuances and try to do their best. I even think they believed this voiceover is a gift to russian audience of the game. And I guess I am gratefull because voiceover is savage!

@mmh

Did you actually read what you posted though? There's no mention of mercenaries or the word mercenaries within that research paper whatsoever. There's not even any mention of money or pay.

The entire paper is about how ISIS uses Russian language propaganda appeal ideologically; not financially to North Caucasian Muslim groups, and how Chechens are their primary target of propaganda. We already know Chechens make up the majority of Slavic islamic militants. That's not new information.

@dark1202 said in New slavic insurgent voice is excellent.:

Directly conflicts with the final quote within the article stating:
"It seems pretty safe to assume that most of these recruits aren’t in it for the money, so who knows what impact the salary cuts will have."

...

So I guess you're right. There do seem to be mercenaries in ISIS, at the very least by the technical definition. And though the article you cited implies that most aren't, it also implies that it is possible that there may be some individuals that are motivated by money. So I was wrong on that end. Well done.

When the pay cuts happened, their numbers dropped sharply. By no means does correlation equal causation and by no means is this the sole reason for their drop in numbers. It would be ridiculous to assume it was that simple and that's not my argument. However, events line up and do suggest a relationship, at least.

I also entirely agree that most aren't well paid mercenaries. Almost all aren't, they certainly don't use contractors as a bulk force as the West now does. However, through anecdotal evidence and the one paper I cannot find for the life of me which I read last year, I am convinced many of the best fighters were (and they switched to a new group when the pay tapered off). At least by some definition... everybody needs a job, right?

@whitby Yes, even terrorists need a job.

But more importantly, they need a hug.

Youtube Video

This is all predicated on the notion that the insurgents in Sandstorm are ISIS. That does not need to be the case. ISIS is specifically a religious extremist organization. That's going to limit the prevalence of mercenary fighters as most members are going to join for ideological reasons. But if you look around for Russian mercenaries, or even regular government troops, fighting with anti-government forces one need not look very far.

@maa_bunny said in New slavic insurgent voice is excellent.:

This is all predicated on the notion that the insurgents in Sandstorm are ISIS. That does not need to be the case. ISIS is specifically a religious extremist organization. That's going to limit the prevalence of mercenary fighters as most members are going to join for ideological reasons. But if you look around for Russian mercenaries, or even regular government troops, fighting with anti-government forces one need not look very far.

No. Regular Russian government troops are fighting against anti-government militias not with them. They're not trying to topple the Syrian government (Syria-the only place where Russian troops are fighting in the middle east). That would make no sense whatsoever. Because they're allies.

So yes. For that, you would have to look far. Very far. Ukraine far.

last edited by Dark1202

The Syrian conflict is pretty complex. Which side is the insurgents and which security? If Sandstorm depicts a local force with US support fighting a local force with Russian support, sounds rather a bit like this? https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/world/middleeast/american-commandos-russian-mercenaries-syria.html

@dark1202 said in New slavic insurgent voice is excellent.:

So yes. For that, you would have to look far. Very far. Ukraine far.

Exactly. Ukraine really is not all that far. Nor Georgia, nor Chechnya, nor Azerbaijan. Both Russia and the US have a long history of intervening in local conflicts, both for against the government, and sometimes on opposite sides of the same conflict. The idea that it could happen in the fictional quasi-Syrian conflict depicted in the game isn't that far fetched at all.

@maa_bunny said in New slavic insurgent voice is excellent.:

Nor Georgia, nor Chechnya, nor Azerbaijan

Georgia, Chechnya and Azerbaijan? What conflicts are you referring to? The only ones I can think of happened almost decades or more ago. Maybe I'm wrong? If so, show me. By all means, I don't mind being corrected.

That being said, this game does not take place in any of those places because if it did, the game would be full of white people. The original intended setting of the game was Northern Syria. Which is why it takes place in desert areas.

idk maybe Azerbaijan has brown people and deserts areas. I'm not an expert on that country.

last edited by Dark1202

@dark1202 I don't mean to imply that Sandstorm is representative of a former Soviet state, simply that the concept of Slavic Russians fighting on the side of anti-government "insurgents" is entirely within the realm of plausibility.

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