Top 3 things you want changed in BFG 2

With BFG announced what are the top 3 things you want to see changed from the original? Mine are:

1.Mulitplayer that plays more like a deathmatch than a campaign (this is what killed the first game's multiplayer in my opinion)

2.More extensive navies for a more diverse gameplay experience.

3.A discount for those of us who paid for the first game since the devs seem to have abandoned it almost out of the gate.

1: Un-nerf Nova Cannons.
1a: Restrict them other ways. Such as an ammo or "max Nova Cannons"
1b: Take them off Orks. They don't belong.
2: Un-nerf Eldar. While nerfing them a bit may have been justified, instead they were beaten with the Thunder Hammer of Nerfing +10.
3: Ignore people harping on about the multiplayer.

I want escorts to be a viable choice, probably through the ability of grouping them through squadrons, and ways to use them to defend capittal ships.

  1. Make the "Capital Ship" better (Whatever ship you selected as your admiral). It would be nice to see them dominate the lesser ships. Failing that, a "hero ship" for each race would accomplish the same thing.

  2. More game modes. Understand this is not a "fault" of the first game, I actually thought it had a ton of modes, I'd just like to see even more.

  3. Notso much a change, but I hope the twelve races aren't going to feel like partial reskins. The Corsairs/Craftworld/Drukhari seem fairly similar, and the trailer didn't seem to imply much difference between the two T'au groups. I hope I'm incorrect there.

My personal top 3.

  1. Revamp abilities. Remove ability spam.

For example they could change how abilities are givin to ships ingame by tying them to upgrades. This will encourage diversity and reduce the amount of ability spam that the first game suffered from. Putting stasis bombs on every damn ship was just too damn much. I would also like to see them remove all CC abilities. Make abilities focused on support and buffs to your own ships. Abilities like auger probes and better capacitators or whatever are fine. Expand on that.

  1. Slow the game down a bit.

I felt like BFGA was too fast it could be because of the ability spam and the pacing and every game ended up turning into a moshpit mess or bumper cars with focus on positioning flying out the window. With these changes they could also remove Tac Cog. Since Imo tac cog was a band aid mechanic and was bad for game play and punished some strategies greatly since some strats rely on enemies being takin by suprise. Tac coc is too impactful of a mechanic in a game that should be focused on positioning.

  1. Reduce RNG extremly.

RNG is fun in single player games but bad for multiplayer games. Im not saying that it should be removed but it should be toned down.

last edited by CANNED_F3TUS

Man, I even had to dig up my old profile to post here:

  1. No renown system in multiplayer or a set amount of currency like in ranked mode. Either all upgrades and whatnot should be avaliable without restrictions or everybody gets the same set amount of currency and chooses where to spend it. I don't think there is a single person that played multiplayer who will not agree that the grind was excruciating.

  2. Balance stuff. I mean yeah sure, there ought to be broken things in the initial release, that's pretty much a given for any game nowadays. But lack of continious support took a toll on the first's game multiplayer aspect and is shows.

  3. Optimisation and bug fixing. While I didn't experience huge problems myself apart from occasional crashes I also know people that experienced a ton of bugs, critical arrors, etc. on a regular basis. Things don't have to be perfect but they should at least be functional.

@kadaeux Why should people be ignored when they harp about multiplayer.

I would change Nine things for BFG

The first would of course be balance. I loved the game to death but really it had all the balance of the tabletop game.

The second would be I would make the ships loreful. Which is to say somewhat in line with how they were in lore, power and otherwise. The Eldar moved quite differently than they did in TT, and they were also far weaker. The Void stalker was supposed to be one of the most powerful battleships in universe, but it was garbage. The tau, on the other hand, are supposed to have a garbage navy in universe but were OP pls nerf in game. This is especially relevant with the new factions coming in.

The third would be to truly make the races be different and have different mechanics. All of the races had lances that werent called lances and macrocannons that weren't called macrocannons. Besides the Eldar they had all the same movement, they had all the same ftl with different effects, and the same boarding. These should not be so similar. Making Eldar movement like TT would be a good start.

Fourth would be make maneuvering actually important. All games really just came down to flying in circles and shooting each other. Maybe make there maps with lots of obstacles to block maneuvering and places to hide. Reducing ability spam would help with this as all the AoE options helped get around people outmaneuvering you.

Fifth would be more types of ships, but they seem to already be doing that. To make this post constructive, I'll add I mean not just class variants, but also new classes, like dedicated carrier (not a cruiser which is also a carrier) and such. I believe I listed the majority of classes in my new ships thread, so those ones would be a nice start.

Sixth would be balance. Loreful balance at that. Instead of the Nerf bat the eldar received, they could have made them more fragile, but have dakka and speed to compensate. The Tau shouldn't have seemed like they came out of a fanfic, they should have instead have been allowed to bring more ships as the smallness of their empire lets them concentrate their navy more easily, which is why they can contest space from the vastly superior flee (see damocles). The Necron Fleet in the upcoming game should retain their insane 1v5 me and lose ships, but be very limited in their numbers (just like lore). Tyranids should have lots of ships and weird abilities, but the relative weakness at range and inability to target non "painted" ships from lore should concentrate. These kind of balance tweeks, not stat nerfing, are the way to go.

Seventh I would like to see ships alot more focused into their roles. In BFG1 they were basically, cruiser but smaller, cruiser but bigger, and really big cruiser. Instead of just being small and weak for example, escorts should be very maneuverable, which is their defense against big ships, and have ordnance they can actually use frequently (usually by the time the ability is recharged the escort is long dead. In exchange, give it limited shots. Carriers should have a lot more than one squadron, especially when it comes to fighters as their main role in battle is CAP. CAP for those who don't know, means counter air patrol, and involves intercepting other planes. The battle for midway for example split 624 planes across seven fleet carriers, which is about 90 planes per carrier. These carriers were tiny compared to the fleet carriers of 40k, like the Emperor class, so at the very least they should be able to match them when it comes to planes. Which brings me to my next point.

Eight. There should be more of everything. Guns, planes, torpedoes, ships, everything. Battles should be huge swirling messes, not slowly circling ships firing what looks like five or six shells once and a while. Warhammer ships are tough, capable of hours of unsheilded sustained bombardment in lore, they can take a bullet or two more than they currently do in game. Previously mentioned midaway, an averageish kinda small battle for the war, had 63 ships involved, 20 of which were capitol ships. I don't think its possible to get 20 capitol ships in game for a match. And that was a small real life battle. Big battles like Jutland (250 total ships and 50 battleships), the Battle of the Philipine sea (170 ships are 1.7k aircraft), or Leyte Gulf (304 ships not counting smaller craft like PT boats and subs and 1.8k+planes). These are the size of real battles. Hell, battles in warhammer are huge, with the Battle of Amarah, which consisted of all the ships a small sector could muster, containing on the imperial side 11 battleships, 60 cruisers, and "several hundred" escorts for a total of likely 371-500 ships (several means more than two but not much more) and on the necrons side 2 Cairn class battleships, 20 cruisers, ??? light cruisers and escorts (probably 52-78) for a total (stated less than a fourth, and far less in tonnage) probably about 74-100 ships. So that's a medium sized warhammer battle, and it contains 445-600 ships. I know the game can't render such battles, but it could at least have a couple more ships if it wants to really capture the true face of 40k space combat.

Ninth and finally, there should be more players and game modes. 2v2 only goes so far, especially with the tiny fleets allowed. Being able to matchmake against and find friends easier would be nice and make the above much more enjoyable.

Anyways, these are my thoughts. Hopefully this feedback helps Tindalos.

last edited by Nemesor Xanxas

@canned_f3tus
A: It's unimportant overall. A small and insignificant element.
B: Because Tindalos destroyed the Eldar competetively and made the Nova Cannon worthless when they didn't ignore it.
😄 Note my choice of phrasing. When we're talking about harping on about it, we're not talking about reasonable and well phrased discussion. We're talking about the types of people that were "Nerf nova cannons now!" and "Nerf Eldar!" etc.

I kind of want to mimic what I said on the steam forums, but i guess pull my ideas together a tad better..

1- Total war style campaign- Will be posting thoughts of how the campaign could work in a total war style in a bit.

2- Replays, and a cinematic camera like they have in Star Wars Empire at War!

3- Better, redesigned game types, this could be tied in with the campaign ideas.

4- Last Stand type game mode between 4-8 players, and over all better and more coop things to do. Make elite mode up to 4 players,

5- Moar voice overs and ques! I thought the voice overs for various characters like the master gunner, the commissar, navigator, and other captain voice ques were very good. Please bring more of them! Things like the shields being down, or a weapon was destroyed/ module of the ship are pretty important.

6- Maps...Please have more design and ideas to the map.. Like moving debris from destroyed ships, moving mine fields, or asteroid fields. Add some warp related things like the warp rifts..

7- Better damage models... while destroyed parts of the ship looks good, it just looked off that some of the ships had parts as if it was never touched.. some pock marks from damage would be some nice eye candy, or holes in the ships, dents etc.

8- of course more ship designs! Lets see some grand cruisers, or ships like the Apocalypse Class Battleship, Defense Monitor, Endeavor class ships etc..

@kadaeux ah yeah. Ok.

Well it wasnt just the peoples that were complaining fault. QA and testers also dropped the ball and the way things were nurfed and buff with giant hammers didnt help. It also didnt help that some of the factions were poorly designed and didnt mesh with the game itself. Some faction problems can be attributed to the core design of the game. For example Game being to fast paced, gimmicky abilities, certain upgrades absolutly screwing over other factions Like AP shells vs Space marines.

Like the fact that orks relied entirely on cheesez and abusing abilities to even stand a chance at winning shows that there is a major design issue going on. Because without abilities like nova cannon spam, zap spam, any spam really and certain mandatory upgrades orks would hardly ever win an honest game let alone at high levels.

@canned_f3tus Can't really blame QA or Testers because a lot of the issues pre-nerf were brought up or questioned, like Pulsars being a micro-skill. Or Orks having access to Nova Cannons at all. And Eldar always had issues (High skill ceiling for example) though they managed holofields better than I was worried they would early on.
DISCLAIMER: The above statement does not hold true for the Tau DLC

The AP upgrade was OP and continues to be, in addition to not making sense. These are already multikilometres starships clad in metres upon metres of armour hurling shells at decent percentages of lightspeed at one another across hundreds of thousands of kilometres. (Or near lightspeed in the Nova Cannons case)

@canned_f3tus Those of us who were testers for BFG:A (1) weren't able to have a massive influence on the games Balance after the Alpha Test because we were able to point out problems in the game, and offer our own solutions, but we didn't get to test the solutions put in place by Tindlos a lot of the time, it was just implemented after we gave feedback.

If they do testing rounds this time I sincerely hope that the testers will be given the chance to test the original designs & modified designs prior to release to help avoid the massive swings of balance we saw in-game.

@romeo said in Top 3 things you want changed in BFG 2:

b

  1. assure longer support than the first game has
  2. !!! Make multiplayer available for more people. 8 should be good. It will be a mess, but mess with 4 friends against AI sounds great. That was the thing that killed the first game for me and friends. (i read it was due to physical engine, but devs solve to and let the game be great)
  3. Better balancing. For me the marines playstyle is too underpovered. And Also Tau has great OP factor in the first game. Even some newbie could be good player thaks to that, but again it nearly ruined MP.

Thats all, if there will be more useful MP and new races, new campaingns, you will get my money.

last edited by kecalcze

@archmagos-alexi said in Top 3 things you want changed in BFG 2:

@canned_f3tus Those of us who were testers for BFG:A (1) weren't able to have a massive influence on the games Balance after the Alpha Test because we were able to point out problems in the game, and offer our own solutions, but we didn't get to test the solutions put in place by Tindlos a lot of the time, it was just implemented after we gave feedback.

If they do testing rounds this time I sincerely hope that the testers will be given the chance to test the original designs & modified designs prior to release to help avoid the massive swings of balance we saw in-game.

Aye. It was disappointing, but i'm hoping to do it again, but IMO they do need to consider the suggested solutions a bit more, the "fix" for Nova Cannons made them "never takes" for the Imperium. Post-launch the Eldar were nerfed to unplayability because people couldn't adapt and understand they needed a different approach to Eldar than others (And that Pulsars should never have been a clickable ability...)

Useful Nova cannons.

Customisable Admech ships.

Non ability Eldar Pulsars.

Better SM voices.

Better skirmish which is not just random compstomp pvp.

Map and possibly mod tools, though very unlikely!

last edited by Imperator

@imperator said in Top 3 things you want changed in BFG 2:

Useful Nova cannons.

Customisable Admech ships.

Non ability Eldar Pulsars.

Better SM voices.

Better skirmish which is not just random compstomp pvp.

Map and possibly mod tools, though very unlikely!

Nova Cannons were useful in the old beta. But whining had them slam it with the nerfhammer 😞

I would be fine if they started on cooldown and had a longer CD but were more accurate.

Possibly if they gained accuracy if you had Line of Sight on the enemy, so that firing on fog of war blips would be innaccurate, but firing on revealed enemy accurate.

@imperator said in Top 3 things you want changed in BFG 2:

I would be fine if they started on cooldown and had a longer CD but were more accurate.

Possibly if they gained accuracy if you had Line of Sight on the enemy, so that firing on fog of war blips would be innaccurate, but firing on revealed enemy accurate.

They'd be fine if they were returned to beta levels of power/accuracy, but restricted in how many you could take.

1: To spawn in random places on the map in a shuttle with empty ships floating around ready for capture
2: An energy field that starts off in a large bubble outside the map and slowly makes the map smaller forcing the players together
3: A chicken dinner for the winner

The problem with that is that they are class based, not favour or kustomisation based like with Orks.

The Victory and Apocalypse are fairly rare and it would not matter to limit them to one, Mars and such are uncommon, but Dominators are pretty common.

Also, Eldar should have weapons that can fire 180 front by default. This would work well with regular lance pulsars.

@imperator said in Top 3 things you want changed in BFG 2:

The problem with that is that they are class based, not favour or kustomisation based like with Orks.

The Victory and Apocalypse are fairly rare and it would not matter to limit them to one, Mars and such are uncommon, but Dominators are pretty common.

Also, Eldar should have weapons that can fire 180 front by default. This would work well with regular lance pulsars.

Untrue actually. Nova Cannons are quite rare. At the outset of the Gothic War, Battlefleet Gothic only had a single Dominator. Even Mars class Battlecruisers are specifically noted for being in decline. As such it's not really a problem because you limit the number of X classes you can take. (Strictly speaking, to be fair, the Acheron Class Heavy Cruiser for Chaos should be similarly limited to one because the Chaos Eternus was the only known ship of its class.)

I hope, but doubt, we'll be getting the Battlefleet Obscurus (or Battlefleet Bakka) ships.

The Orks meanwhile shouldn't have Nova Cannons at all. They can barely fire captured Imperial Torpedoes, the Nova Cannon is something i've never seen or heard of them ever managing to capture, least of all somehow capture so many that they're stuffing them on Light Kroozas.

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I would not say that means the cannons are super rare themselves.

But yeah definately not for orks.

@bosie said in Top 3 things you want changed in BFG 2:

1: To spawn in random places on the map in a shuttle with empty ships floating around ready for capture
2: An energy field that starts off in a large bubble outside the map and slowly makes the map smaller forcing the players together
3: A chicken dinner for the winner

BFGA PUBG edition. Will the frying pan block macro shots too?

last edited by CANNED_F3TUS
  1. Make the game more Wargame series alike (that is, you construct your "deck" and fight against other players). Plenty of people complained about the grind, it might have been fun for the first try, but fighting against top level enemies when you just wanted to play with a different fleet isn't that fun. The system we had in ranked games was pretty allright-ish.

  2. Since we are supposed to play with "even larger fleets" (I believe that's what has been said in the trailer) we should get a better way to command groups of ships. Fleet formations (say, like in Total War series) would be a very nice thing, especially for smaller ships like destroyers. The problem with destroyers was that people would usually just use them as a fillers. These would find a better use If we had an option to plan formations for our ships and order groups to fire off torpedo salvoes, use maneuver engines and such.

  3. Perhaps tune down the ability spam if possible.

#1 turn-based combat instead of real-time

#2 choosing the ships in your fleet is more like the board game, ie, needing 2 cruisers for every heavy cruiser, or 2 cruisers for every battleship.

#3 less active ability upgrades, passive upgrades only, pulsars as weapons not as an ability. As much as they might change the game, most of these abilities are crazy and impossible to balance. FEWER GREAT choices is better than MORE BAD choices.

@canned_f3tus

@canned_f3tus said in Top 3 things you want changed in BFG 2:

@bosie said in Top 3 things you want changed in BFG 2:

1: To spawn in random places on the map in a shuttle with empty ships floating around ready for capture
2: An energy field that starts off in a large bubble outside the map and slowly makes the map smaller forcing the players together
3: A chicken dinner for the winner

BFGA PUBG edition. Will the frying pan block macro shots too?

It will also block lances and NCs.

1: Fleet points costs for all upgrades and load-outs.

2: Less ability micromanagement, and more emphasis on positioning and tactics instead of ability spam

3: More unique upgrade options for each faction to increase their individual flavor

1: For Ramming ships to take as much dmg as the rammed, Unless the Ramming ship has been fitted with a upgrade like the Power Ram for the Tyrant Cruiser. Most ramming should be last ditch desperate acts

2: Missions like Break Through need to be tweaked. Staying away from and ignoring the Space Stations, effectively turning the mission into a Cruiser Clash makes all the missions play the same in the campaign.

3: After watching higher pt games on YouTube, I worry there needs to be missions and weapons that punish compact no tactics strategies. If not the game will quickly devolve into my blob vs your blob, who's lucky and starts the explosion domino 1st. Brilliant movement should Rule! Skill should Rule.

last edited by Bellumvinco

@banjojohn Turn-based may be a interesting Mode, even more so if both players make their decisions at the same time and the animations chosen by both players play out simultaneously.

2: I worry that would make fleets very predictable. Limiting options is not fun.

3: I enjoy play-testing builds that aren't considered by the majority to be optimal. Hmm...Some things like Fire Protection should be automatically added at a certain ship level. Fire Protection is crazy super important in real life, but I never have added it to a ship in BFG Armada.

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