Foregrips for m249

I feel that the m249 needs to have a foregrip Attachment. Seems to have very high vertical recoil. Being on the move as a gunner is difficult. not saying it needs to take away all recoil just make it more manageable for burst fire.

@jamtu Yeah, agreed, as someone who's used it in the military, I can say for damn sure it's idiotically over the top, not even remotely freaking accurate depiction of it in the least.

It's a fairly heavy weapon, and it's weight counteracts it's recoil. The devs seem to have forgotten about, you know.. physics.

They should really balance it in other ways than just recoil, because it's simply not realistic, and going to youtube and watching some videos of inexperienced person shooting it and being pushed back (and thus they - while off balance - end up pointing the weapon upwards) isn't how the weapon behaves.

Alternatively they could swap the compensator's effects from horizontal to vertical.

They effectively negate the point of the class as a whole, and people are more inclined to pick rifleman with extended capacity over a gunner.

last edited by Mainfold

Lmao...there is just no way NWI would do this. But give it time. Modding community will have everything you need soon enough to rambo around with an m249 on pve no doubt. But you cannot realistically expect Devs to enable that kind of behavior for competitive.

Besides all the weapons arent even in the game yet. Many to come! Rpk, galil off the top of my head. more to come.

last edited by Max80

@mainfold

For someone with such worldly knowledge of military etc...etc....you seem to have trouble with coming to realize a fairly simple concept called game balance. Not everything in the real world translates over well into gameplay. Exploits happen and there are plenty of people who love nothing more than to game the system. Most people would take your idea and run with it destroying all sense of current game balance (and it is still being addressed). There are countless servers in insurgency where people make the m249 and other lmgs easy to use and walk around with and you never see anyone use the bipod....they are skulking around with 200 kills while the other 5-6 people have like 20....this is not an exaggeration. Now imagine how bad that would be if it was pvp?

But what do any of us know especially the Devs...I mean as you so casually put it....” the devs seem to have forgotten about, you know... physics.” Right? So what could they possibly know? Oh right....they've made several successful pc games...that's right!

last edited by Max80

@max80 said in Foregrips for m249:

@mainfold

For someone with such worldly knowledge of military etc...etc....you seem to have trouble with coming to realize a fairly simple concept called game balance.

For someone who's so fond of the game balance idea, why don't all guns have the same RoF, same Mag size, deals the same damage etc. They'd all be different weapons with different names, but same characteristics.
There are many games that already apply this idiotic logic, so why don't you guys play those games and let us have fun with our REALISTIC shooter. There's literally a shitton of games like that.

Also please do elaborate on telling me why people won't run around with ARs that have drum mags, because that pretty much sounds exactly the same as having an LMG. And what stops you from running around with an AR that has 30 rounds? 30 rounds in a game where 2-3 shots kill is more than enough. You can always quickly reload.

People need to realise that any game can be exploited. If any game can be exploited and the old Insurgency was a pretty good MilSim (yes there are more hardcore alternatives like Squad), then tell me why do you want to ruin it, just for the sake of fake "balance".
Really simple, if you want balance you'd need all guns to behave exactly the same, but you don't want that do you?

@sgt-kanyo

It would appear that those who could change it see it differently. And I am all the happier for it without having to tell other people to go play some other game.

last edited by Max80

@max80 said in Foregrips for m249:

@sgt-kanyo

It would appear that those who could change it see it differently. And I am all the happier for it without having to tell other people to go play some other game.

Well since the whole world and indeed this game as well revolves around money, the creators will adjust the game to the bigger group's liking. Especially when said bigger group says they want "balance" rather than "realism".
I'm not hating the creators for it, because I understand this is a product, but if we the customers keep mentioning our ideas, they might have a change of heart, since they'll see that a big group also wants realism.
I mean I have to assume the reason they made Sandstorm is because the old Insurgency was a hit. Which it was, and yet it had a much more unforgiving damage system and the LMGs weren't acting like they were shooting .50 cal rounds.

@sgt-kanyo

you might try looking for a group of modders in the steam workshop community interested in adopting this idea. its not impossible for modders to change everything you are mentioning. Look at what Daimyo and others did with the Sernix servers in insurgency. I get its what you are looking for and why....I just hate to see what it would do to this game. I feel their path is safer for the majority which I happen to enjoy and then just leave the gates wide open to modders. Which in case you didnt know....they are and it was a huge selling point for me to see what people will do with unreal engine 4's modding tools. Who knows I might become a fan of what you are talking about.

EDIT - I am curious to see what they will do with my beloved RPK.

last edited by Max80

@max80
Well as of this moment mods are not available for Sandstorm and I kind of have my doubts that'll have such a great variety of mods as we did for the Source engine.
Also modding damage values, recoil and penetration would be considered as massive cheating, which I don't want either. Not even for COOP. I've seen good games ruined by those (for example GTA).

@sgt-kanyo -

ok...I want to understand this. You think introducing such a mod for the m249 into current gameplay would not be wrong but modding a redesigned theater for balance with a gripped m249 is not ok? so completely new theaters (redesigned) by modders like insurgency even for coop is cheating? I give up. You are not making sense to me.

you mean MK48
m249 have no foregrip attachment

@max80 said in Foregrips for m249:

@sgt-kanyo -

ok...I want to understand this. You think introducing such a mod for the m249 into current gameplay would not be wrong but modding a redesigned theater for balance with a gripped m249 is not ok? so completely new theaters (redesigned) by modders like insurgency even for coop is cheating? I give up. You are not making sense to me.

No I thought the thread was kind of a request thread for NWI to implement the foregrip attachment for the M249.
The very same way if NWI would modify their current theater in a way like that, it's perfectly fine, since it's available for all players.
The old Insurgency worked the same way. You couldn't modify the damage values for yourself, since that'd lead to cheating.

If what you meant was having a modified theater on your own server, where every player that joins gets those updates and only for that particular server, then sure, I'm in, but I'd much rather see the whole game implement this, since what if only a server in another side of the world implements this. You still wouldn't be able to play it realistically, because you'd have such a high ping.

@sgt-kanyo
I meant only for servers run by us (customers) - modders are a big deal in insurgency. There is a great deal that can be changed added and implemented in modding. The best chance you have for what you seek is from what I can tell, the modding community.

In the previous insurgency modders added grips to belt fed weapons, rpk etc etc. they even added faster bolt action to sniper rifles. They added new ammo types with new damage values. Thats the fun of having a small community in your own server and knowing someone who is active in the modding community.

If you are still unclear log into the previous insurgency and go to a OFFICIAL nwi server for PVE (look at weapons for ALL CLASSES, and look at classes and amount of players allowed (it went from 8 players on OFFICIAL SERVERS to 18 human players vs an entire army of bots, on SERNIX.) it was all out war....and it was amazing.

Then go to private servers and log into a SERNIX server and take a look at the characters, weapon choices and classes. Youll even find classes in the theater there on sernix that were invented for the theater and not part of the original game yes medics were made. They had a point system and a way to revive INJURED players. If you were domed or too badly hurt welp you were sol until a point was taken.

last edited by Max80

@max80
Yes I remember now, however those were usually pretty buggy, as for example added foregrips could not be seen. Modded weapons were of varied quality (some of them were great, some of them were almost from the 90s era graphical wise).
That's 1 reason why I don't want to rely on modders, the other is that I'm not entirely convinced the modding scene will be as big (if it'll even exist) as in the source engine Insurgency.
Remember stuff in Source engine were very easy to mod, you had Hammer to make maps, you could easily make 3D models and texture changes by editing the .mdl or .vtf files.

@sgt-kanyo

Yea source was only able to do so much. I will do some more research on the modding side of unreal engine 4 (regarding user-friendliness and how difficult people find it to use). It's something that crossed my mind but haven't really invested time into, as I hadn't really considered the idea that it would be REALLY hard for people. During an AMA on Reddit, maps were said to be first to be modded into the game. But, keep in mind these mods go into the workshop for everyone. (NWI is working on their own maps some old ones too not all maps will be done by the modding community) If you come across a server that has done a theater overhaul but is lacking in a mod or two you want to see hit the Admin/owner up. People like that are always open to ideas (NWI is too but has a different position and point of view to maintain) and if you are polite with the suggestion on their steam group; as successful private servers with theater overhauls usually have a really fun community, it'll more than likely make it in assuming it isn't something that would lead to exploitation I am sure.

last edited by Max80

There are numerous ways of balancing... thinking there is only recoil to balance with is not only naïve, but it's absolutely idiotic thinking. There are a whole host of ways to balance weapons without needing to make them unrealistically heavy on recoil and not even reflect the weapon being depicted.

  • Balance via mechanics (such as overheating, barrel-change necessity, movement penalizing, etc.)

  • Balance via "limited supply" of the class

  • Balance via aggressive micro-recoil for horizontal recoil, making sustained fire less desired

  • Balance via resupply times

  • Balance via audio-cues for enemy players to notice you

  • Balance via fatigue & stamina systems

  • Balance via overall supply-points

The list goes on... there's more than enough ways of doing it without doing reactionary balancing, and if you can't see that, then you lack creativity and intuition. Just because it's easy to balance by doing 10x to the recoil, doesn't mean it's remotely close to good balancing or even appropriate balancing for a given case.

@mainfold said in Foregrips for m249:

Balance via aggressive micro-recoil for horizontal recoil, making sustained fire less desired

that is the one I fear most....so easy to run and gun with the saw. Basically making it an OP assault rifle.

@max80 As opposed to doing it with an M4 with a drum-mag?

It can still have horrible hipfire recoil, and they can put turn-speed limiters on it (weight to the movement) there's LOTS of ways to balance it in a sane way. You're just fearmongering rather than actually trying to get to a solution that makes sense. You're a waste of time in this thread as you're clearly so close-minded that you offer nothing to the conversation bar only any and all means of attempting to shut down any changes to it.

last edited by Mainfold

@mainfold said in Foregrips for m249:

@max80 As opposed to doing it with an M4 with a drum-mag?

It can still have horrible hipfire recoil, and they can put turn-speed limiters on it (weight to the movement) there's LOTS of ways to balance it in a sane way. You're just fearmongering rather than actually trying to get to a solution that makes sense. You're a waste of time in this thread as you're clearly so close-minded that you offer nothing to the conversation bar only any and all means of attempting to shut down any changes to it.

now you are just being insulting.

Edit- on the contrary I have offered more helpful information than anyone here. You just dont like my answers because they are not exactly what you want.

last edited by Max80

@max80 said in Foregrips for m249:

because they are not exactly what you want.

I literally provided a list of varied ways, not some specific singular manner of doing things.... exactly the opposite of exact.

last edited by Mainfold

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