Toxic-Racist-Troll players ruining Sandstorm. Biggest flaw in game. What are you going to do NWI?

@b4ndo i get what he is saying though. I'm an adult who really loves this game but when people just start screaming N****r in the mic it's pretty cringe

@Aslan14

  1. Dont be a little bitch
  2. Quit virtue signaling
  3. We do really need a votekick
  4. Mute players who offend your precious little mind
  5. If you cant mute them, turn off all radio comms in your settings until patched
  6. STFU and play the game
  7. If you heard half of what is said on the REAL battlefield, you'd STFU.
  8. Grow a pair
  9. Of Balls
  10. And dont be a virtue-signaling snowflake bitch.

"Think of the children!"
Grow up. If your feelings are hurt by the words of random gamers then say it, stop appealing to these hypothetical "other people" who's feelings may be hurt as well.
Honestly, muting is easier than ever before, and your behavior and what you're asking for will destroy this community more than any amount of hurtful words from random players online ever will.

Vote kick is probably needed, but I have definitely seen it abused to the point it clears out entire servers. I'd say add the function, but keep it disabled for individual players unless that player has either mic-spammed, spammed voice commands, or has team-killed more than once (to discourage people from jumping onto friendly explosives or friendly fire to vote-kick someone).

@lordsiggi said in Toxic-Racist-Troll players ruining Sandstorm. Biggest flaw in game. What are you going to do NWI?:

@Aslan14

  1. Dont be a little bitch
  2. Quit virtue signaling
  3. We do really need a votekick
  4. Mute players who offend your precious little mind
  5. If you cant mute them, turn off all radio comms in your settings until patched
  6. STFU and play the game
  7. If you heard half of what is said on the REAL battlefield, you'd STFU.
  8. Grow a pair
  9. Of Balls
  10. And dont be a virtue-signaling snowflake bitch.

This is honestly just a pretty low effort post with no constructive value. We're obviously not on a real battlefield and well, I am pretty sure that even on the real battlefield, black soldiers would not want to hear "nigger cunt kill yourself" from their teammates. On the real battlefield, soldiers support each other and have each others' back.

No one had a problem with swearing alone. Problem is with players who use extremely racist, sexist and homophobic language to attack their teammates with. I, for one, have enough pride to not play with that kind of players at all. Which is why I am happy that they seem few and far between in the competitive scene, on the EU region at least. This is a much less toxic game than most competitive games are and I hope it stays that way. One way to make sure it stays that way is for its community to take a clear stand for it.

last edited by tzaeru

So since I'm new to this forum and have yet to decipher entirely how it works I'm just going to throw out a reply list to the last major post that @tzaeru made to @Goat-Walrus.

  1. If you only have to mute what you believe is a small minority of players who don't contribute to the game and only cause issues to you, why is it an issue at all? You're caught between the game being completely ruined as if the entire player base is the Aryan Brotherhood and as if there's not enough of them for you to give the time of day. Personally, it seems to me like you want some power that allows you to inconvenience others who inconvenience you.

  2. The game isn't slurring anyone sure, but you'd be lying to yourself if you think the people out there in the real world that this game is based around aren't slurring those they fight. I would say the game definitely contributes to a hostile and unfriendly environment compared to the last game on the gore and violence alone. Just because you're used to seeing it does not mean everyone else is and there is certainly a large section of the population of the world who is not familiar with the level of gore in games like this and certainly is not willing to put up with it (remember that some countries have and I am sure still do have bans on the level of gore detail in video games, most prominently Australia and Germany have had them).

  3. To me your thought that community servers are no longer feasible is just more complaining that you don't personally hold power over people you dislike. You have an option that's already there and if you don't believe people would play with you on a no-racists-allowed server it likely shows that the people who play this game don't agree with your belief systems. If people aren't willing to use the browser for specifically anti-racist severs, then the rest of us who don't take kindly to censorship shouldn't have our speech restricted because you deem it intolerable yet do not wish to use the mute function.

  4. As I stated previously, I think you think your opinion is more popular than it really is. I also believe you're in an extreme minority of people who are perfectly fine with the sight of ridiculous gore details in video games but cannot handle/tolerate excessive swearing and/or racism/bigotry. Not really a huge overlap considering on requires insensitivity and the other requires hyper-sensitivity.

  5. Those who invoke the slippery slope fallacy are those that create the slippery slope. Slippery slope is very real when it comes to politics (which, in my opinion, this argument is about) and anyone who calls it a fallacy is trying to throw it away as an argument because it's inconvenient.

  6. I've known many Finns and all I can say is across the board your social standards are different than that from America. If you don't like the way Americans behave, don't play with Americans. I also find you unique as a Finn because I've never met one that isn't extremely prejudiced yet quiet about his beliefs.

  7. If you think that appalling behavior isn't here to stay, you're very naive in your beliefs. Not sure if you've checked the news lately, but people aren't exactly getting more civil by the minute and that change in the way people behave in the real world will most certainly be reflected onto the in-game world.

@pierogipal said in Toxic-Racist-Troll players ruining Sandstorm. Biggest flaw in game. What are you going to do NWI?:

  1. If you only have to mute what you believe is a small minority of players who don't contribute to the game and only cause issues to you, why is it an issue at all? You're caught between the game being completely ruined as if the entire player base is the Aryan Brotherhood and as if there's not enough of them for you to give the time of day. Personally, it seems to me like you want some power that allows you to inconvenience others who inconvenience you.

Well, I've made sure to say it several times now that I don't have a big problem in regards of toxic players. They are rare enough. I've only had to mute like 1-2 players in the comp mode.

  1. The game isn't slurring anyone sure, but you'd be lying to yourself if you think the people out there in the real world that this game is based around aren't slurring those they fight.

This is a very broken analogue on multiple levels. Firstly, we're not on the battlefield fighting with real guns and bullets; we're in our homes sitting on our comfy gamer chairs playing a video game together. Secondly, the context was discriminatory and other strongly toxic speech. Shouting "fucking shitfuck" when you die for the 5th time to that Farmhouse C-side camper is OK. Repeatedly telling your teammate "kill yourself nigger faggot" after he fails to wipe the whole enemy team as the last person alive is not OK. Nor is it OK to go on bizarre rambling tangents against minorities. Even the real armies do not tolerate that sort of stuff.

I would say the game definitely contributes to a hostile and unfriendly environment compared to the last game on the gore and violence alone.

Nah, people can separate virtual gore and violence from genuine hostility and unfriendliness.

Just because you're used to seeing it does not mean everyone else is and there is certainly a large section of the population of the world who is not familiar with the level of gore in games like this and certainly is not willing to put up with it (remember that some countries have and I am sure still do have bans on the level of gore detail in video games, most prominently Australia and Germany have had them).

Those people are probably not the ones screaming racist bullshit in gory video games.

  1. To me your thought that community servers are no longer feasible is just more complaining that you don't personally hold power over people you dislike.

Sure, I want to have some means of rebuttal against people who act, in my view, strongly out of line. I don't dislike people very easily. When I do, they're being pretty far out there.

You have an option that's already there and if you don't believe people would play with you on a no-racists-allowed server it likely shows that the people who play this game don't agree with your belief systems. If people aren't willing to use the browser for specifically anti-racist severs, then the rest of us who don't take kindly to censorship shouldn't have our speech restricted because you deem it intolerable yet do not wish to use the mute function.

I ran a set of moderately popular servers for Insurgency 2014. They were all branded around being well-moderated and friendly places.

If you go check the server browsers in Sandstorm, you'll see that no one is playing on any server but the 32 player push and mixed-mode servers. I don't play those modes myself, I only play 5v5 Firefight (and in 2014 played Ambush).

  1. As I stated previously, I think you think your opinion is more popular than it really is.

I don't think that really matters, whatever the truth of it is.

I also believe you're in an extreme minority of people who are perfectly fine with the sight of ridiculous gore details in video games but cannot handle/tolerate excessive swearing and/or racism/bigotry. Not really a huge overlap considering on requires insensitivity and the other requires hyper-sensitivity.

Swearing has, again, never been the problem. Open, blatant racism or other discriminatory speech however makes the game less enjoyable experience to lots of people. It's easy to not understand that when you're never the one being targeted by it. All my female gamers for example avoid talking anything when they're playing solo because they'll instantly be targeted with harassment and sexist remarks. I'm not sure if that would pertain to Sandstorm, as none of those friends plays it. I would hope it didn't and I can see it a distinct possibility that at least the competitive mode would be OK. That's obviously great.

  1. Those who invoke the slippery slope fallacy are those that create the slippery slope. Slippery slope is very real when it comes to politics (which, in my opinion, this argument is about) and anyone who calls it a fallacy is trying to throw it away as an argument because it's inconvenient.

Sounds a bit like fallacy fallacy..

Communities self-moderating toxic behavior very rarely leads to any significant backlashes. Almost every community self-moderates to a degree. The idea that not allowing blatantly racist talk would somehow lead to dystopic levels of censorship is just completely ridiculous and just reactionary.

  1. I've known many Finns and all I can say is across the board your social standards are different than that from America. If you don't like the way Americans behave, don't play with Americans. I also find you unique as a Finn because I've never met one that isn't extremely prejudiced yet quiet about his beliefs.

I don't play with Americans much, simply due to latency. But we aren't culturally all so distinct anymore. You and I probably have more common cultural background by being English-speaking gamers than we would have with a random non-gamer Finn or American.

We share this community, platform and culture, whether we're American or Finnish or Israeli or so on.

  1. If you think that appalling behavior isn't here to stay, you're very naive in your beliefs. Not sure if you've checked the news lately, but people aren't exactly getting more civil by the minute and that change in the way people behave in the real world will most certainly be reflected onto the in-game world.

On large timescales, people have actually improved. Less war by capita, our humor is much less brutal, we've stuff like civil rights and whatnot, people can be openly gay without being booed home, so on..

Appalling behavior happens and will happen, sure, but it that doesn't mean that we should tolerate and accept it. Actually, I would claim that one of the reasons why hate crime has been on the raise in USA and in parts of Europe is because parts of our population are becoming more accepting of discriminatory speech and attitudes. This part of the population - young male adults with low future prospects - happens to coincide some with the competitive gamer culture. Therefore, I actually argue that it's very important to stand against the worst sort of behavior and attitudes in gaming and other Internet communities.

But, again, Sandstorm's comp mode doesn't seem to have a huge issue with this at the moment. I simply hope that the community can take pride in the fact and stand with keeping it that way.

Oh, and a report system would be nice. Even if it's purely automatic and even if it isn't very easy to get suspended by it.

last edited by tzaeru

Kudos to all of you who are dedicated to having a mature discussion about this topic and "Have the balls" to speak up to and challenge racist-homophobic-misogynist rhetoric in any form on any forum without denigrating to narrow-minded interpretations. The only cowardice I sniff on this thread is the deniers and apologists for such behavior, unwilling to acknowledge what is a very real topic which has led and still leads to very real harmful consequences for people in minority positions.

I suspect if the in-game toxic chatter was oriented around "crackers" "rednecks" "hillbillies" "white trash" or "honkeys" people like @lordsiggi & @shangster949 would have a lot to say about how they don't want such expressions on this platform.

Is this little fag snowflake bitch @Aslan14 still complaining? LMAO I like how the Americans are so brainwash nowadays. You realise that rest of the world doesn't give a shit about your "racist" "faggotry" and "cunt-hating" problems? 😃

Deal with it little bichboi

over and out.

@sangon ever adding intelligent mature analysis to the discussion. A hint that might help you in life - your ego is not "the rest of the world" even if it has grown that large.

Community Manager

Hey all,

Let me remind you that no insults and personal attacks are allowed. I'm going to close this thread due to some really mean languages.

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