SVD, EBR, flechettes, FAL in competitive

The games broken when there’s 20odd weapons to choose from but only 4 get picked in competitive.

I’d prefer if only the m4, akm, m24, Mosin and handguns where the only guns available. Breacher and rifleman can have same weapons but different accessories/nade options and supply points.
However I understand I’d be in the minority in trying to bring back AA2.5 instead of allowing insurgency to be insurgency.

Some ideas from my friends and I;
-remove flechettes
-the FAL should cost more
-FAL should have more recoil
-move svd and ebr to the sniper class
-remove svd and ebr

I use all these weapons when I play because of how good they are, so I’m not hating on them, just think they’re too strong and aren’t good for competitive.

I disagree, the shotgun is already very situational, removing flechettes would only make it more so, leaving you useless in mid range engagements. In my opinon the rate of fire, reload times AND lack of ammo balances the flechettes already.

It almost sounds like you want to remove the whole idea of a one shot kill. unless using a bolt action.
Personally i would HATE this, I LOVE the unforgiving nature of the weapons. It adds tension for me knowing i could get picked off by an FAL if i make the wrong decision.

Flechettes should be removed from the game completely. They're not very realistic.

How about we buff all the guns so they're all useful? Having both airsoft guns (MK18) and guns (SVD) in the same game makes zero sense.

Or maybe we nerf people? Rifle rounds through your unarmoured heart and lungs should maybe do more than slow your running down a bit.

Just a thought.

Or maybe we nerf people? Rifle rounds through your unarmoured heart and lungs should maybe do more than slow your running down a bit.

and

It almost sounds like you want to remove the whole idea of a one shot kill. unless using a bolt action.
Personally i would HATE this, I LOVE the unforgiving nature of the weapons. It adds tension for me knowing i could get picked off by an FAL if i make the wrong decision.

Yes! In fact not wearing any armor at all should make all "A zone" (chest, head) hits disabling with all the rifles (and higher power pistols) and real world level IV plate ("heavy armor") blocks quite a few 5.56 before failing (unless hitting almost exactly the same point all the time).

See for example
Youtube Video

ArmA level realism in ballistics simulation would be cool, also super-duper double-dog unforgiving (and the "casuals", which we need if publisher is to make their money back, will run away screaming in terror). And related to that hiding from artillery in any building not built like a concrete bunker being bombarded would not be very conductive to survival (if the shrapnel multiplied by the disintegrating walls doesn't get you the roof falling on you will). So increasing the realism in that sense would again completely break the balance of the game and map design.

Here’s another thought.

The hitscan/ballistics system makes any shots in under 0.1seconds from mouse click hitscan.
After that it works on ballistics. (Correct me if I’m wrong).
Maybe this is what’s making the one shot kill guns even more powerful because they are always operating with hitscan and not ballistics.

What happens if I go single fire and tap really fast? All hitscan?

@turyl you may disagree, but the fact that you can use a 2x with flechettes means your wrong.
Try it.

I disagree with changing the gun play. However, I think the class structure can be reworked in the competitive mode to increase diversity of weapons. IMHO the weapons are just fine as they are if a little more thought is given to the class structure based upon current competitive gameplay.

Some example ideas:

  • Introduce a specialist class which incorporates shotguns and sniper replacements (e.g., SVD)
  • Break classes down and give them unique capabilities (i.e., certain equipment for certain classes so diversity is required for competitive strategy)
last edited by slickity

But the gunplay is shit. I can't be bothered putting it tactfully any longer. I initially thought they were going to fix it - I never even considered the state it's in was their intention. I'm beyond being concerned presently, the frame drops and bugs are bad but core gunplay imbalance and lack of any lethality? They should be ashamed and embarassed to be marketing this as a successor to Insurgency 2014.

@turyl Well i tried a 2x scope with flachettes and buckshot.
flachettes at 100 in game meters took 2-3 shots for a kill, anything under that range took 1-2.

There is definitely a sweet spot where flachettes are really effective but past that you're better off with a g3 or fal and under that, youre better off with buckshot or an akm.

I still think someone skilled with an FAL or G3 is much more deadly than someone with flachettes.

Hey i can see your point of view.. especially if someone skilled is using flachettes. Imo If they are over powered at all it would only be a small amount. Like i said before the rate of fire, reload times, and ammo cap, balance it pretty effectively already.

My only personal gripes with it would be.. why flachettes? aren't they pretty useless irl? why not just add different choke options?

@turyl said in SVD, EBR, flechettes, FAL in competitive:

Like i said before the rate of fire, reload times, and ammo cap, balance it pretty effectively already.

Yah, when I'm using a shotgun I think every time I get killed it's because I'm pumping and can't get off a follow-up shot fast enough. It makes CQB super tense - make that first shot hit or you're dead.

My only personal gripes with it would be.. why flachettes? aren't they pretty useless irl? why not just add different choke options?

Yes. Flechettes out of a shotgun is not a thing, they saw limited use in Vietnam and as far as I know haven't been used since.

The military open-chokes all their shotguns and always has. The common view (right or wrong) is that choking a shotgun makes one more thing that could fail, and it would complicate logistics and maintenance. The US military primarily uses shotguns for door breaching anyway, where a choke is pretty pointless and could impede the ability to use specialty breaching ammo. But, since Security isn't the US Army and isn't subject to its regulations, different choke options could be a cool addition. It'd make a hell of a lot more sense than flechettes.

last edited by MAA_Bunny

@whitby said in SVD, EBR, flechettes, FAL in competitive:

But the gunplay is shit. I can't be bothered putting it tactfully any longer. I initially thought they were going to fix it - I never even considered the state it's in was their intention. I'm beyond being concerned presently, the frame drops and bugs are bad but core gunplay imbalance and lack of any lethality? They should be ashamed and embarassed to be marketing this as a successor to Insurgency 2014.

So fucking true. The FAL, SVD, M14 and the shotguns are the only guns with "insurgency" damage models. We need to boost the other guns not nerf these ones.

@maa_bunny said in SVD, EBR, flechettes, FAL in competitive:

My only personal gripes with it would be.. why flachettes? aren't they pretty useless irl? why not just add different choke options?

Yeah flechettes are pretty useless IRL. The idea of a skinny, fin stabilised, fast moving projectile is a great idea as we see from APFSDS for tanks, but for shotguns they are rubbish.

Chokes although slightly unrealistic in a military sense would be cool for the game, however I fell like I would always chose the tightest grouping one anyway...

last edited by Zucchini

@zucchini said in SVD, EBR, flechettes, FAL in competitive:

Chokes although slightly unrealistic in a military sense would be cool for the game, however I fell like I would always chose the tightest grouping one anyway...

That angry bots server on Ins2014 had chokes as an option for the shotguns. I thought I'd do the same, but in my opinion it depends on the range of the map. If it's balanced similarly at least.

@zucchini said in SVD, EBR, flechettes, FAL in competitive:

Yeah flechettes are pretty useless IRL. The idea of a skinny, fin stabilised, fast moving projectile is a great idea as we see from APFSDS for tanks, but for shotguns they are rubbish.

You can get sub-caliber saboted rounds for shotguns and they're pretty cool. (The Army developed an APDS round in 5.56mm too, intended to make the M-249 effective against light armored vehicles, but, tangent). The problem with flechette rounds out of a shotgun is that there isn't just one of them, they're grouped in a canister. This means the flechettes themselves don't really have any more energy than standard buckshot, they're just shaped differently. In Vietnam the thinking was that they would penetrate foliage better than buckshot, and by some accounts they did, but the idea that they are somehow armor penetrating or more lethal than buckshot is totally myth.

Looks like your connection to Focus Home Interactive - Official Forums was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.