goblinSpy - league stats without upload needed

@mordrek said in goblinSpy - league stats without upload needed:

How is TV Plus calculated?

TV + (50 * (wins - losses))

By design it is not supposed to include concessions in either the wins or losses, but Cyanide does include them when doing the calculation on BB2.

Well, for this feature to be interesting, I think the same formula as the one in the game used for matchmaking should be used so that comparisons between TV-matchmaking and TVPlus-matchmaking can be inferred.

Of course, for academic purposes, maybe the TVPlusWithoutConcessions could also be interesting.

@ugh said in goblinSpy - league stats without upload needed:

Well, for this feature to be interesting, I think the same formula as the one in the game used for matchmaking should be used so that comparisons between TV-matchmaking and TVPlus-matchmaking can be inferred.

Via eyeballing? That's not real analysis. If you download the data (which mordrek already makes available) you can calculate these fields yourself - its what those of us who do actual data analysis do - and can then use those fields for those analyses.

You should also note that goblinSpy does not include data from a time before TVPlus matchmaking. Such data does exist, but is not available for comparison on the site.

@voodoomike said in goblinSpy - league stats without upload needed:

Via eyeballing? That's not real analysis. If you download the data (which mordrek already makes available) you can calculate these fields yourself - its what those of us who do actual data analysis do - and can then use those fields for those analyses.

You might be a proponent who always wants to reinvent the wheel and encourages everyone else to do the same, but some of us just like to use the existing wheel thankyouverymuch.

If the fields are already part of a table that can be exported, an analyzing program can also run over these fields and do something with that input without having to do the same preliminary computation again.

Also, eyeballing already has given me the ability to find 3 or 4 bugs in the mordrek pages in the last weeks alone, so it can't be all that bad 😉

@ugh said in goblinSpy - league stats without upload needed:

You might be a proponent who always wants to reinvent the wheel and encourages everyone else to do the same, but some of us just like to use the existing wheel thankyouverymuch.

Oh? In this situation it sounds like you don't want to use the existing wheel, and are asking mordrek to change the wheel so you don't have to do simple math... which bodes poorly for the more complex math that would be needed to actually analyze the resulting data.

@ugh said in goblinSpy - league stats without upload needed:

If the fields are already part of a table that can be exported, an analyzing program can also run over these fields and do something with that input without having to do the same preliminary computation again.

There are an infinite number of potential fields that can be calculated using existing data - not all of them are worth building into the data source itself. If your analyzing program can apply math to the data, it can calculate simply derived fields as well whether those fields are present ahead of time or not. The point is simply that if you want to know those numbers you don't have to wait on mordrek.

I don't oppose the listing of TVPlus ratings, I'm simply saying that the bottleneck is not mordrek's implementing of their calculation and display - anyone can easily calculate the values from the data.

@ugh said in goblinSpy - league stats without upload needed:

Also, eyeballing already has given me the ability to find 3 or 4 bugs in the mordrek pages in the last weeks alone, so it can't be all that bad 😉

It's "all that bad" when it comes to analysis, yes. There's quite a difference between finding a mistake and applying mathematical inferences to data. That you don't understand that is troubling.

Hi Mordrek
First really thank you for both your BB2 tools, they're fantastics.

We've got a little problem: we're tryng to implement your stats on our league blog.
But we use some different rankings rules: in case of same points, ranking is calculated first by direct matches, and only in second time by TD differences. Sorry my english is really bad I'll make an exemple:
TEAM A point 15
TEMA B point 12
TEAM C point 12
ecc. ecc.
Team A is the first. Who had won the matches TEAM B Vs TEAM C will be second, if the match was a Tie, TD differences will calculated. If is the same, scored TD is calculated.
Do you think there's a simple way to sort our ranking in this way?
What's your suggestion?
I'm a little bit confident with python, SQL, and some basic programming knowledges. I'm better confident with HTML and site building. Before to start with this project, I thinked ask for your help can point me in the good direction without wasting time on bad ways. 🙂
REALLY THANK YOU
Regards
Francesco

@satanello86 You got a reply on the other forum 🙂
PM me here if you need more help

HI!
I doesn't recognize there's a new forum, sorry 🙂
Thank you!
Really Helpfull!
I've to study a little bit but your explanation is really clear!
If everyone else need this information, I'm pasting it there:

Hi.

I have no current plans to alter sorting even though I realize it's something that some may want.

If you want custom sorting, you will have to load the data as .json, sort it the way you like it and build your own html from that.
BB2Stats and goblinSpy have different format of the .json, but it contains similar info.

How to download and use json to build html, see for example:
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/doc ... jects/JSON

If you are using BB2Stats, then the .json-data is on an URL similar to this:
http://www.mordrek.com/BB2Stats/BB2Data ... eague.json
<LEAGUE_ID> can be seen in the normal URL used by BB2Stats to view your league. It's the string of characters after "lid="
For example: http://www.mordrek.com/BB2Stats/BB2Data ... eague.json

If you are using goblinSpy, then the .json-data is on an URL similar to this:
http://www.mordrek.com/goblinSpy/Overvi ... E_ID>.json
The link is shown as a link in the yellow top bar (look for the text "overview data")
For example:
http://www.mordrek.com/goblinSpy/Overvi ... ICYJE.json

Hope that helps.
I don't check this forum often ; feel free to write to me at the new forums here:
https://forums.focus-home.com/category/ ... discussion
/mordrek

last edited by satanello86

@voodoomike said in goblinSpy - league stats without upload needed:

There are an infinite number of potential fields that can be calculated using existing data - not all of them are worth building into the data source itself. If your analyzing program can apply math to the data, it can calculate simply derived fields as well whether those fields are present ahead of time or not. The point is simply that if you want to know those numbers you don't have to wait on mordrek.
I don't oppose the listing of TVPlus ratings, I'm simply saying that the bottleneck is not mordrek's implementing of their calculation and display - anyone can easily calculate the values from the data.

Yes, but in this instance, a measure is being displayed that doesn't really have any bearing on the matchmaking other for those teams where both parties have win=loss. It would make sense to display only TVplus more than it makes sense to only display TV, but for those who are interested in where this differs and theorize that TV is better than TVplus, a visual, direct, comparison could already lead to a better acceptance of TVplus, which, I thought, would be right up your alley.

@voodoomike said in goblinSpy - league stats without upload needed:

I don't oppose the listing of TVPlus ratings, I'm simply saying that the bottleneck is not mordrek's implementing of their calculation and display - anyone can easily calculate the values from the data.

No one said there was a bottleneck. I was just trying to make a new (still slightly bugged) feature even more useful. It's also more helpful when you have these things in one table than having them produced by different tools and then having to merge the different results (that wheel problem again). Even if I do the other analysis in private, how will that help other people? If it's a small effort on Mordrek's part, then it makes more sense that way.

@voodoomike said in goblinSpy - league stats without upload needed:

anyone can easily calculate the values from the data.

Can you please summarize how you would do this? I don't see W-D-L values at the time of the pool in the pool dataset. I appreciate I could bring the pool data and results data into 2 database tables and then join the tables and write a query to work out the TV+ calculation for each match in the pool (using team ids as FKs?). But I'm assuming from your comment it must be easier than that and I'm missing something obvious.

@runningdragon said in goblinSpy - league stats without upload needed:

I appreciate I could bring the pool data and results data into 2 database tables and then join the tables and write a query to work out the TV+ calculation for each match in the pool (using team ids as FKs?). But I'm assuming from your comment it must be easier than that and I'm missing something obvious.

No, no easier way, but that's a pretty easy thing to do if you're someone who works with data. Mordrek's tables are not the way the data is downloaded from Cyanide - his DBs are broken up into many subtables, so to reassemble the data you need to create your own view and export the results to your processing program of choice.

Once there, assuming you've mirrored the data to have one record per team per match, you can order them by starting date and calculate zSum very easily. Once you've done that, tvplus is just TV + 50*zSum

@mordrek
HI!
And thak you again for your tips!
Can I ask how th"rank" field in rankings is calculated?
Thanks!
Regards

@satanello86
Hi.
It's the competition ladder rank.
Check out this thread on how it's calculated : https://forums.focus-home.com/topic/466/the-champions-ladder-ranking-formula

@mordrek Thank you, I need exactly the formula in the links...again thanks 🙂

...EDIT:
Just another one information... I'm more confortable with .sqllite than .json files... There's a way to direct download the database unless the json ones? I can do it by my browser but I can't figure out how to do it in python3 because there isn't some sort of direct link to do this in your goblinSpy.html
Regards

last edited by satanello86

@satanello86
The database for each competition is also available for download similarly to how the json files are available.
They do however include all data for that competition so they can be large.
If you shift-click the link to the database you'll see the URL to the database in the new window that opens.

@mordrek
Stupid me!
Thank you found it!
While I've seen this answer I worked with the json, it's not so difficult to read so i worked with this one... just one last question about your json: my test scripts for training with your datas starts to work, in screen you can watch a script who scan your http://www.mordrek.com/goblinSpy/Overview/XXX.json and stamp on screen all results for our 3 current leagues ... but i can figure out where both TV value for every single match is stored...Do you have any suggestion to help me find it?:
(the format is:
DATE:STARTED, TEAMAWAY(COACHHOME), SCOREHOME vs SCOREAWAY, TEAMAWAY(COACHAWAY)
0_1513803858954_Immagine.png
Sorry if I'm boring you, programming for me is just an hobby so I'm not a real expert!
Regards,
Francesco and all the BBS - Bloodbowl Salento league!

last edited by satanello86

@satanello86 The .json is just an overview and so does not contain all data. What is shown in "Competition overview" and "Toplists" is basically what you get from that .json.
If you want more data, then you must download the database (Note that it's the live database and if it is written to while downloading then you will get a corrupt copy. It's also big).

Hi. Thanks for the great tool! I noticed that it hasn't updated any match info since 23rd December. Are the Goblin Spies having a Xmas break?

last edited by Symiant

I think it's a problem at Cyanide's end. I'm hoping @Netheos will get them to take a look after the New Year break.

Yes seems everyones having issues getting data . ill force recollect once it starts working again.

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