Some feedback on BFG:A2 multiplayer

Even though this comes pretty late after the December beta test I decided to go ahead and make this post because I feel these issues need to be addressed as soon as possible. This does not concern specific balance issues as tweaking the numbers on those should come naturally as more people invest more time into the game, but some changes I personally feel should be made for the game to do well as a competitive multiplayer experience.

  1. The most serious problem is not being able to see your opponent's pick before selecting/making your fleet line-up. Going into matches blind will lead to frustrating experiences by adding an unnecessary RNG mechanic to rank play and make your ranked multiplayer portion of the game lose credibility.

  2. The second problem I see is that some weapons feel underwhelming (e.g. torpedoes) vs others that when amassed leave little to no room for counter play (e.g. nova cannons or the star pulse). This problem is only exacerbated by the first (and most important) issue raised here.

  3. Lack of any depth for some factions (e.g. Necrons). This, sadly, will be more of a problem if you solve point one (or maybe that's why you opted so that you can't see your opponent's choice before selecting your fleet), since if your race is a one trick pony it will either be overpowered or underperforming with people knowing how to counter it's specific play style.
    Still I cannot stress enough how important it is for you to make it so you are able to build a fleet after seeing your opponent's faction pick (and maybe sub-faction if it becomes meaningful) if you want to have any sort of serious ranked multiplayer scene.

  4. Even if the grind is trivial please leave all the skills unlocked for multiplayer play. There is no joy in grinding an unoptimized fleet while competing with other players for no reason at all.

  5. It's nice how you added all the sub-factions but I wish there was more of a meaningful difference between the skill sets they offer. I am mentioning this even though I think you plan on adding on this in the future (otherwise why add it at all?) but still it feels a bit of an empty system.

  6. The game should have a replay system. Not only is this important for those who seek to better themselves but it's a nice tool for your youtube content creators out there.

if you show enemy it will just mean you are always facing a counter fleet and balanced fleets will never be viable
necrons will always face a wall of lances
orks will be swarmed by ordnance or capping escorts
dark eldar will never be able to hide because of their opponent bringing so many escorts that the scans just over lap into infinity

instead of wanting the perfect counter fleet you should be trying to build a balanced fleet that can deal with any situation by just adjusting how they play

the goal is to have a good balanced fleet that can give an epic battle, not have a minmaxed selection that will make your opponent want alt-f4
thats why the enemy is hidden, not to cover up faction weaknesses
to promote good fleet building

torps do need some buffs, starpulse some nerfs, novas weren't so bad for me they seemed good not bad but also not uncounterable
necrons need a lot of work

@ashardalon said in Some feedback on BFG:A2 multiplayer:

necrons need a lot of work

But do they, really? Nerf star pulse, buff ships hp damage and regeneration.

Should not this do the trick?

@adm_janus it would
but thats basically saying change all their stats
i define that as a lot of work

also need to be able to turn with their inertialess drive and a tiny reduction in cooldown

also their call to arms is just call to arms, and it really should be different then call to arms
they are the skeletons that never really die
they just get up again and again and again
them having a simple call to arms is almost as bad as nid spawning pools being a simple call to arms
that really needs a change

also need phase out back
winning vs necrons should really be focused around breaking their morale not their ships
they should be close to immortal but cowards

last edited by Ashardalon

@ashardalon said in Some feedback on BFG:A2 multiplayer:

they should be close to immortal but cowards

That's debatable, in the lore they are very much OP and only retreat after overwhelming damage that cannot be repaired.

They are hardly a morale soft race like orks or 'nids without synapse.

@adm_janus orks can recover
necrons should be resistant to morale but if they break once they should immediatly phase out
no executing insubordination chanse
just poof gone and count as a kill for the other ships morale

I agree going into a match totally blind is awful. I think a solid middle ground would be that you still blind-pick your fleet before clicking to queue up for a match, but that before the match you both get to see each other's fleets.

There's nothing quite like running into Tyranids in ranked. You have no idea if they're doing stealth escort spam, or boarding squadron spam. Against the former, you need to spread out to contest objectives. Against the latter, you need to clump your fleet together or you'll just get de-popped from across the map.

And you have no idea what it is until either all 5 cap points start changing color, or one of your ships is dead.

seems like y'all want advantages over other people that they do not have in kind... if you got to pick you fleet after they picked then obviously they would be at a sever disadvantage and if you can see their fleet before the match starts even after picking your own than an highly specialized fleet is now useless. 12 factions means total balance is impossible, ranked play does not hold the same relevance as it would in say starcraft. The only way to give you the balance you crave is to severely limit the ships you can bring and make all the factions homogeneous.

Your first point made me laugh. In no strategy game have i ever seen such a feature.

The best way to deal with uncertainty about your opponents fleet composition is scouting. Just like any strategy game. You deploy a expandable scout to find out what your opponent has or has planned. Escorts are cheap use them.

@canned_f3tus said in Some feedback on BFG:A2 multiplayer:

Your first point made me laugh. In no strategy game have i ever seen such a feature.

The best way to deal with uncertainty about your opponents fleet composition is scouting. Just like any strategy game. You deploy a expandable scout to find out what your opponent has or has planned. Escorts are cheap use them.

Total Warhammer has it, off the top of my head, as does Warhammer and W40K. Tends to be more common in tactics games in my experience, because when you can't adjust your army on the fly, you kinda need a bit of intel.

While I don't necessarily agree with it, I get where @duck_bird is coming from: It would suck to face an army composition that you're just straight-up doomed against. That said, all of the armies in BFG tend to be very similar within the same race.

@romeo Warhammer TW isnt a RTT or a RTS. It is a turnbased strategy. And even than you need to move your army close to get a full view of the opponents army which doubles as still having to scout your opponent and you still wont be able to do much about it except for moving another one of your elite stack together with your other stack.

I dont know if this is even present in pvp play in quick match. Because it would lead to endless counter picking. Which isnt just a douchie move its a horrible flaw.

last edited by CANNED_F3TUS

@canned_f3tus MP Total War is an RTS and you do get to see what race you're playing against. I'd be happy if we can pick a race then join the queue. Once we get a game, and see what faction we're up against we then get to pick out of our saved fleets for the faction we picked.

@canned_f3tus said in Some feedback on BFG:A2 multiplayer:

@romeo Warhammer TW isnt a RTT or a RTS. It is a turnbased strategy. And even than you need to move your army close to get a full view of the opponents army which doubles as still having to scout your opponent and you still wont be able to do much about it except for moving another one of your elite stack together with your other stack.

I dont know if this is even present in pvp play in quick match. Because it would lead to endless counter picking. Which isnt just a douchie move its a horrible flaw.

...Wut? It's certainly not a turn-based strategy for the battles, not even close. It's definitely a real time tactics. And no, you get a preview before battle of:

  • Who your opponent is by race.
  • A preview of some of the units they're bringing, just not the entire list.
  • Exactly how they recommended doing it is exactly how TW:W does it: You get to preview eachothers' units after you've picked, so there is no "endless counter picking". But you're not going in completely blind and hoping your opponent's build completely screws you depending on the strategy you went with.

This is a bit of an old thread but I do wonder why people hate the idea so much of seeing a faction pick before picking fleets?

I mean...even in TT you generally know what your opponent is playing faction wise before you start the games. Depending on how many models you had would obviously limit you to if you could even make a specialized list to deal with it or not but its not like it was top secret knowledge on what the faction was going to be.

@dreadspectre some factions are too ridged so knowing what faction they are before you pick you fleet you would be able to build to counter regardless simply because the enemy fleet, like necrons or SM, lacks depth in their rosters.

@imptastic

Then that's a flaw of the game, not of allowing players to know what they're fighting. It's a little telling that Total Warhammer doesn't have this issue with its fifteen races, yet apparently BFG2 has it with its 12 (4 of whom are effectively reskins of an almost-identical faction).

@romeo i dont disagree im just stating what the downside of what it is currently... in the devs defense they dont have the manpower to put out something like total war warhammer so it is what it is i suppose.

@romeo said in Some feedback on BFG:A2 multiplayer:

@imptastic

Then that's a flaw of the game, not of allowing players to know what they're fighting. It's a little telling that Total Warhammer doesn't have this issue with its fifteen races, yet apparently BFG2 has it with its 12 (4 of whom are effectively reskins of an almost-identical faction).

Let's be fair here, Creative have a much bigger team and Warhammer Total War MP was quite a mess balance wise at launch, and for some time after.

@hatefield said in Some feedback on BFG:A2 multiplayer:

  1. The most serious problem is not being able to see your opponent's pick before selecting/making your fleet line-up. Going into matches blind will lead to frustrating experiences by adding an unnecessary RNG mechanic to rank play and make your ranked multiplayer portion of the game lose credibility.

I just want the devs to know that at least one player (me) completely disagree with @hatefield's point above. Going into matches blind makes one of the essential parts of the game ever so much better: the tension of the initial engagement phase. I really like that part.

last edited by feld

would love to see stats after battles,
customizations options for ship hulls,
3v3 battles ,
more points for 2v2, let us get some large ships in there.