JESUS CHRIST NERF THIS SLUG ONE SHOT SHOTGUNS!!!

50m - one shot
100m - one shot
200m - one shot
300m - one shot
3 armor - one shot
Nice ranked where wh players take shotgun with 1h in game and free win the game.

@boulloud Nah they’re fine in their current state.

It is the flechette rounds that are OP.... btw

both are pretty op
slugs are really good if you can aim. then it just becomes a sniper
flechette can 1 shot anyone from close to medium range(which is literally 90% of all gunfights)

If armor could stop some rounds, if not a direct hit, that would be lit.

Armor should be more effective against shotgun projectiles than rifles.

Shotguns are fine. Armor needs a slight buff as it hardly protects from anything.

it's sad that a gun that consistently one shots is considered overpowered in the sequel to Insurgency

Why would you use flachette or slugs? The normal shotshells one hit across the map.

last edited by MLB7

Realize that if you are overrun or have more then 1 target that sees you then you have a bit of trouble on your hands.

@maa_bunny In terms of penetration, yes. But the blunt trauma resulting from a slug hit in the chest (protected by armour) would most likely kill or incapacitate you anyway.

Also (not specifically talking to you now), I think qualifying shotguns as "snipers" when used with slugs is highly exagerated. The bullet drop on a slug makes it really hard to aim properly on long distances, compared to an actual DMR/Sniper rifle.

@grumf said in JESUS CHRIST NERF THIS SLUG ONE SHOT SHOTGUNS!!!:

@maa_bunny In terms of penetration, yes. But the blunt trauma resulting from a slug hit in the chest (protected by armour) would most likely kill or incapacitate you anyway.

With soft armor, sure, kinda. Certainly incapacitate, but a rapidly fatal wound is pretty unlikely. Even a few broken ribs and a punctured lung probobly won't kill you within the span of a Sandstorm match.

But both the "light" and "heavy" armor options in Sandstorm incorporate hard armor plates on the chest. These would have no problem defeating a shotgun projectile with nothing worse than maybe some bruising for the wearer.

The slugs aren't too bad but the flechettes turn the shotty's to sniper rifles...

@maa_bunny Even if it wouldn't incapacitate the target, I mean... What would be the point of shooting someone then ? It's a videogame, it has to put some limits to realism. A strong armour plate can withstand several slugs without breaking. So what ? Should we need 6-7 shots to kill an ennemy now ?

There are only two ways to solve this :

  • Make arbitrary decisions like : a shotgun has to be balanced, hence why it's super effective and one-shot kills. Who would want to use a poor 8 shots manual rearming and time consuming reloading weapon if it wasn't for it being so efficient at dropping targets ?

  • Have a realistic approach : plates of armour do protect the body area that they cover, nothing more but nothing less. That area can withstand many shots of various calibers, including slugs and 7.62x51, to prevent penetration without however suppressing blunt damage so killing a heavily armoured opponent still is possible.

As much as I would like a realistic approach to that armour/ammo problem (it would make balancing quite simpler, tbh), I'm afraid that's not what the devs went with. So... We're stuck with that arbitrary decision according to which shotguns are slow firing and take ages to reload once empty (you then constantly have to reload not to go empty), so they must at least be powerful in order to be rewarding and actually useful.
I recently tried to play as a breacher in Ins2014, not using slugs but mere default buckshot : it's a pain. You have to shoot 4-5 times at someone that's more than 15m away from you if you want to kill him. Feels like you're using a toy. Sandstorm has the decency to make shotguns a good option, and I personnaly like that very much.

That being said, I'm all for the removal of flechettes. It's totally OP, redundant (buckshot almost does the same thing) and pretty unrealistic in addition to that.

last edited by Grumf

Shotguns needs nerfed it is way to powerfull . its a one kill from across the map .

give everyone slug shotguns and remove all other weapons while adding a grappling hook so we can have a proper instagib railgun match in this shit

@evil-monkeyxi Getting tired of this whining bullcrap. Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds ? Across the map, really ? For your information, shotguns have a muzzle velocity of 400 meters per second compared to 910m/s for a standard 5.56 assault rifle. Try it. Take a shotgun, aim at a wall far away, shoot, and see how much time it takes for the flechettes to hit. Now do that with a FAL, it's almost instantanious. You can't snipe across the map with shotguns, full stop. The bullet drop, decreasing damage and low velocity projectiles make it way too difficult to be worth a try.

Stop being salty because some dude shot you "across the map" at 50m with a shotgun and git gud.

@grumf said in JESUS CHRIST NERF THIS SLUG ONE SHOT SHOTGUNS!!!:

Stop being salty because some dude shot you "across the map" at 50m with a shotgun and git gud.

Not to mention that shotties have EIGHT rounds, limited ammo, and are slowwww to reload. There are trade-offs. I rarely run as Breacher for that reason.

@grumf said in JESUS CHRIST NERF THIS SLUG ONE SHOT SHOTGUNS!!!:

  • Have a realistic approach : plates of armour do protect the body area that they cover, nothing more but nothing less. That area can withstand many shots of various calibers, including slugs and 7.62x51, to prevent penetration without however suppressing blunt damage so killing a heavily armoured opponent still is possible.

As much as I would like a realistic approach to that armour/ammo problem (it would make balancing quite simpler, tbh), I'm afraid that's not what the devs went with.

This would be my preferred approach too. But I suppose I'm not a game designer, I just know about guns.

@grumf

Also part of the reason realistic armour is working in you know, reality, is because there is no respawn so ppl tend to keep a far distance to enemies to keep their pulse at a level that doesn’t give a heart attack, which again makes covering the body partially with armour viable as enemies is not targeting you from cqb positions most of the time. All the “realism” arguments when cherry picking some feature from reality tend to consider just a fraction of the picture and thereby makes little sense from a gameplay balance perspective. Most strategies from reality are useless when people can respawn and gamble with player character lives as the rules are “a little bit” different. People arguing for a feature being able to consider both sides of the argument is rare in these realism this and that discussions, armour is pretty underwhelming in reality as well as trained soldiers who shots you center mass and knocks you out tend to follow up by a bullet in the face=0

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