Necrons are somehow even worse

Speaking of Necrons in this thread, has anyone figured out how to realign the ship after using their jump? It says on the tooltip "moves your ship and realign it" but it's definitely not like MWJ where you get to have a ghost of your ship and position it before it fires off.

@dreadspectre said in Necrons are somehow even worse:

Speaking of Necrons in this thread, has anyone figured out how to realign the ship after using their jump? It says on the tooltip "moves your ship and realign it" but it's definitely not like MWJ where you get to have a ghost of your ship and position it before it fires off.

Nope, maybe it's a bug?

@alandauron i think the fact that you have to take pyramid reconstruction as a mandatory skill spells out the glaring problems.

Three things I'd (Personally) do, and this from a singleplayer perspective, not a multiplayer one:

  • Remove the debuff for repairing, and massively increase its speed. No one is punished for their shields recharging, why are we?
  • Massively increase their DPS.
  • Increase their cost to account for the previous two changes.

@romeo the campaign upgrades for them looked pretty garbo as well.

@alandauron they cannot naturally repair heavy crits. You should not be forced to take pyramidal as you currently are with them, upgrades are meant to be played around with not necessary patches because the faction is trash.

Thanks all, and agreed. I just wanted to try and look at things from a glass half full perspective. I ranked up after a few back to back wins and then was immediately put back in my place(maintaining Gold) after running into players that have invested a fair amount of time.

@Romeo I don't want to see expense go up for Necrons because it's already small fleets in MP, but maybe the devs need to separate SP from MP stats and balance. Necrons seem great in the campaign compared to the Imperium, at least the way I play, so maybe that's what the devs are looking at...?

@alandauron they are good in campaign because they start in an area where it’s easy to go requisition. Also because you are fighting the dumb as rocks ai, usually with a points advantage too.

Cover all points here, just need devs to actually respond and fix.

The balance of the game is currently terrible and I do get the distinct feeling they are rushing this out the gate, if its going to be released in this state I personally will be getting a refund, despite the potential this game has

Too easy to crit because of no shields and too easy to hulk. (Given Point investment)

That and prices went up across the board for all ships, they promised big battles and it seems more like skirmishes!

@nemesor-xanxas said in Necrons are somehow even worse:

@alandauron they are good in campaign because they start in an area where it’s easy to go requisition. Also because you are fighting the dumb as rocks ai, usually with a points advantage too.

I usually fought with a point disadvantage with the Necrons because it was fun. I just wish the customization from the first BFG were in this one. Having your choice of skills was great rather than templates.

Necrons are always going to be very hard to balance.

Because in the tabletop they flat out werent. They were so incredibly overpowered stinky french cheese that the best your opponent could get was a moral victory where the necron player phased out but you won on points whilst 90% of your fleet was crushed. Mild exaggeration but they were seriously unfun to play against.

Heaven forbid you play an Eldar faction and they literally ignored your holofields and just blew you out of the sky...

So yeah, I can inmagine why they are having some issues to balance this fleet for the game...

I think hull points/decaying rate are increase to 3~4 per second. current hp regen is useless in middle of combat, and make escort and light cruser ships too vulnerable as their point value.

@demoulius said in Necrons are somehow even worse:

Necrons are always going to be very hard to balance.

Because in the tabletop they flat out werent. They were so incredibly overpowered stinky french cheese that the best your opponent could get was a moral victory where the necron player phased out but you won on points whilst 90% of your fleet was crushed. Mild exaggeration but they were seriously unfun to play against.

Heaven forbid you play an Eldar faction and they literally ignored your holofields and just blew you out of the sky...

So yeah, I can inmagine why they are having some issues to balance this fleet for the game...

But I think that's where a lot of people are coming from here. The Necron Ships are supposed to be outright better than their competitors. The balancing should be centered around their point cost, and trying to figure out a way to phase them out. As actually destroying a Necron fleet on TT was almost entirely out of the question. And that isn't in regards to the lore, where a Cairn has never been destroyed. Entire fleets have dumped macro into a Cairn and done little more than knock over one of their pylons. The one time one did look like it was going to take any amount of damage, the entire Necron force packed up and left to protect it. It cost the IN nearly everything they brought.

They actually have the mechanic they need to make this happen. Morale. First off Necron Ships do not break and panic so that needs to go the way of the dodo bird real quick. They're driven exclusively by a robotic sense of self preservation. They don't run. Instead, radically increase their current morale and make it much harder for them to get it back. If at all. When their morale hits zero, they phase out end of story. This would give license to allocate the stats the Necron fleet actually deserves, especially for its point cost. The way to beat Necrons becomes less about actually managing to detonate the fleet, but rather through stacking morale penalties. Kill the flagship, critical damage, successful boarding action, ramming, all the little ways we cause morale become much more critical to keep your Necrons from phasing out. It also makes self targeting the Cairn Shroud of Darkness more important, as it's one of the few way Necrons would have left to stay up on morale.

But out DPSing the Necrons in a head on fight? Out lasting them? That shouldn't happen. TT veterans would even argue out maneuvering them shouldn't happen, but that's one I'd happily concede to keep them at least able to be fought against to fleets who aren't good at ramming, boarding, brawling.

@hellhound said in Necrons are somehow even worse:

@demoulius said in Necrons are somehow even worse:

Necrons are always going to be very hard to balance.

Because in the tabletop they flat out werent. They were so incredibly overpowered stinky french cheese that the best your opponent could get was a moral victory where the necron player phased out but you won on points whilst 90% of your fleet was crushed. Mild exaggeration but they were seriously unfun to play against.

Heaven forbid you play an Eldar faction and they literally ignored your holofields and just blew you out of the sky...

So yeah, I can inmagine why they are having some issues to balance this fleet for the game...

But I think that's where a lot of people are coming from here. The Necron Ships are supposed to be outright better than their competitors. The balancing should be centered around their point cost, and trying to figure out a way to phase them out. As actually destroying a Necron fleet on TT was almost entirely out of the question. And that isn't in regards to the lore, where a Cairn has never been destroyed. Entire fleets have dumped macro into a Cairn and done little more than knock over one of their pylons. The one time one did look like it was going to take any amount of damage, the entire Necron force packed up and left to protect it. It cost the IN nearly everything they brought.

They actually have the mechanic they need to make this happen. Morale. First off Necron Ships do not break and panic so that needs to go the way of the dodo bird real quick. They're driven exclusively by a robotic sense of self preservation. They don't run. Instead, radically increase their current morale and make it much harder for them to get it back. If at all. When their morale hits zero, they phase out end of story. This would give license to allocate the stats the Necron fleet actually deserves, especially for its point cost. The way to beat Necrons becomes less about actually managing to detonate the fleet, but rather through stacking morale penalties. Kill the flagship, critical damage, successful boarding action, ramming, all the little ways we cause morale become much more critical to keep your Necrons from phasing out. It also makes self targeting the Cairn Shroud of Darkness more important, as it's one of the few way Necrons would have left to stay up on morale.

But out DPSing the Necrons in a head on fight? Out lasting them? That shouldn't happen. TT veterans would even argue out maneuvering them shouldn't happen, but that's one I'd happily concede to keep them at least able to be fought against to fleets who aren't good at ramming, boarding, brawling.

This is what I originally envisioned when the first balancing discussions happened ahead of beta. The state of current necrons is pitiful, and does not at all resemble their lore selves. I especially agree with the phase out thing. Its really dumb that they try to run.

@Hellhound your source that Tomb Ships never got destroyed?

The Imperium destroyed the world engine, a vessel many times larger then a tomb ship. At great cost mind you, but it was still done. If they could destroy that I fail to see why they cant destroy tomb ships...

I would not jump to conclusions, but they still feel too much of a starpulse wonder.

With the right admiral skills and upgrades they can handle criticals but I would prefer to see their cd abilities nerfed and their base damage and speed buffed.

A cost reduction so they can field one more line ship could work too.

I think at the very least now that pyramidic reconstruction has essentially become mandatory, it should be a base skill on the Cairn (maybe every ship?) would help combat the excessive crits happening knowing you can fix everything in 90 seconds regardless of how much damage you take and give them a bit of flavour.

Hell for added extra awesome make it a targetable skill that also regens crew for the targeted ship, two birds with one stone!

last edited by Bould

@demoulius The imperium could not destroy the world engine, they spent days firing at it and did 0 damage. In the end, when they wasted a DaoT battlebarge to ram through the shields, they had to first rely on a deposed necron overlord to lead them around and save them a couple times, and then release a ctan shard which cored the planet and tore it apart. Source: The book. For the Tombship thing, they have never destroyed one in combat, as stated by the TT game. Later on they did defeat one by boarding it with more or less the entire black templars chapter, but even then they could not destroy it and had to set it on a course for a nearby sun, which unbeknownst to them Cairns literally eat, and thus it is very unlikely destroyed it. I think you are supremely underestimating the Cairn. In fall of orpheus, 2 of them, twenty cruisers, and some escorts fought a fleet of over 371 imperial vessels and utterly thrashed them, and that was a fleet with 60+ cruisers and eleven battleships. Only a single cruiser was destroyed on the necrons part, and neither of the tombships were. On the imperials side, the casualties were greater than 90%, and of the remainder none were undamaged. The necrons didn't even bother to leave the system, the ones unneeded left and a dozed escorts and a cairn went and landed on another planet, completely ignoring the survivors after the battle. Another time, and entire fleet of chaos ships including the rare infernus class battleship fired on one continuously and did not damage at all, and were summarily ignored. In another case, while mulching an admech fleet and generally going around oneshotting everything (fun fact, there is no vessel in 40k that has survived the main guns of a Cairn. If you include TT craftworlds would be included) it took a nova cannon shot to the face and all that happened was an antenna broke off. There as no other damage. Cairns aren't to be messed with.