[Feedback] Why do necrons still suck

Apologies in advance but I could not think of a more professional title for this thread. Anyways, why is the title true? We had at least eight threads last beta debating necrons and everyone agreed without starpulse, or even with against good players they were terrible, and in dire need of buffs. So instead we get a LS nerf and a price hike? You said you were listening to feedback tindalos so I though maybe I was just wrong but when I posted a thread in general discussion today I only got people that agreed. You can't make one of the main campaign races trash and expect good reviews, this is starting to remind me in BFG1 eldar. They need to be changed before release, as it is they cannot win against any competent player as has been discussed in explicit detail elsewhere. So again, why are they still bad?

last edited by Focus_Camille

To be fair, they did get buffed quite a bit. They are bad at ramming due to high cost/health, and no ramming spurs on their ships, and ramming got a serious nerf.

Armor seems to do quite a bit more, and If memory serves, I think lances used to treat armor as 25, now they treat it as 50, which means they are far more able to play at 9k range, given they rely heavily on lightning arcs, which don't ignore armor anyways.

They also got their boarding crit chance doubled, which may turn out to matter. I don't know though, they sure don't feel like a boarding race to me.

Also, I am not super sure, but I strongly suspect that they increased the cooldown on strike craft, which makes it harder to overwhelm them in the gaps between star pulse.

I am not saying it's enough, and to be honest, I spent all day playing the campaign, so I don't even know what's going on on the ladder. But they did get a lot of indirect buffs. And while torpedoes getting double health seems like a big nerf, torpedoes don't ignore armor (so the armor rework should help there), and it's not like necrons were shooting down torpedoes before the buff.

I still don't like the idea of just getting wrecked by nova cannons because they move so damn slow, though.

last edited by timmietimmins

Armor buffs help necron but they now have almost 0 dmg output. Tanking a lot doesn t matter if you van t kill anything

Community Manager

Hey everyone,

Keep in mind this is still the beta, so it's entirely possible balance isn't on point just yet. We appreciate any feedback, since it will help us make sure things are as balanced as possible for launch!

@timmietimmins none of those are buffs to the Necrons, everyone got those. The crit chance was given to the SM as well for example, and none of the core issues were addressed (no DPS, get critted into oblivion, cant avoid ord due to IDs nature, get kited forever, way overpriced, less tanky than other ships due to nature of shields/their Regen/lack of brace, no variety, and so on). They still lose to many equivalent ork ships in max range shootouts, I’ve tested that. The boarding buff is directly detrimental, as they are not supposed to be in LS range because no shields. The fighter cool down doesn’t matter because they are still the worst in the game, and lose to bombers and such. The reason they are bad at ramming is because without all ahead full it’s almost impossible to do it. And torps are what starpulse is supposed to be for. I’m really not seeing how you think they have been buffed “quite a bit”.

@Jellyfoosh I appreciate that you at least responded. The issue though is that we have been saying this since the first closed alpha around 6(?) months ago and nothing been done except accidentally make starpulse to powerful. There are page after page of dire problems with the fleet that have gone unaddressed, despite all the feedback one them. Hell there are still issues with correct fleet coloration and gauss coloration, which is both dissapijting and unloreful. That’s why they remain the worst faction by far, and doesn’t even get into the endless complaints about variety (ie they still done have even half the ships of the Druhkari, and all their ships are functionally the same making for repetitive play) and that all the new ships we got were already either cannon but obscure or from book of nemesis, but the could easily be GW being GW. Anyways, since you are here at least, can you explain what the armor change does? I couldn’t find what it meant anywhere.

last edited by Nemesor Xanxas

@nemesor-xanxas

Yes they are. Just because space marines ALSO got buffed, doesn't mean that doubling the crit chance of necron ships was not a buff. If you argued "every race got a buff to boarding crit chance, and necrons less than average", sure. That would no be a buff.

But necrons got the largest buff to crit chance, of anyone, and it was shared by space marines (who also clearly needed a buff) and dark eldar (Because I have no idea what the devs are thinking with dark eldar... maybe one of them has a kid who collects dark eldar ships or something?).

You absolutely are suppposed to be in lightning strike range, because the primary armament on all your ships has the same range as lightning strike, and you cannot lock on. I will assume that's a typo, and you meant "boarding" range.

The fighter cooldown matters because it means that while YOUR fighters suck, the enemy cannot launch as many strike craft against you. It's not "oh, my doom scythes are less useless", it's "I have more time to recover star pulse wave after using it, once the enemy bombers get blown up".

As far as getting outshot by orks, you are gonna need to be a lot more specific. I don't find that likely, but I am not going to be able to look at the entirety of the ork list to figure out why you are right.

to be clear, I assume you are actually closing to 9k range, right? you aren't just trying to particle whip people from 13.5k away, "outside of LS range"?

Community Manager

@nemesor-xanxas Essentially, the armor change made stronger armor better than it used to be.

@jellyfoosh on the issue of necrons ive noticed in the campaign you cant really use cruisers because you cannot change the admiral ship from the shipyard screen. so you have 2 much power in one fleet to leave the screen and do it where you normally would. i suspect its probably a problem for the imp campaign as well.

@timmietimmins yeah, sorry about the LS thing my brain deeper and confused it for boarding for some reason (mentally switched ranges), no idea why (probably was up to late last night and suffering for it now). I’ll conceede on that then. I hadn’t thought of the fighter rework from that angle, so fair enough there, though they are still vulnerable to there just being more carriers b/c point cost. For the ork thing I’ve been busy, so I’ve only had it happen to escorts/CL so far, as that is all I can vouch for. The dirge/jackal fall to it, cartouche as well. A shroud was going to but got ordnanced first and I haven’t tried the Kopesh yet. I’ve been player around with CL fleets, so I don’t know about other classes, but the escorts at least lost frequently enough last time that they were mentioned in more than one thread. So I’ll conceede in those points but still think they need some intensive work before launch.

@Jellyfoosh ok but what does that mean. Do they have higher damage resistance effects, and if so what are they now? Do they resist AP more? Do they resist crits better?

totally agree. Just had like 5 successive losses that would have been wins had the ships had more mobility and waaay more dps, but no can't go toe to toe with any other battleship cuz you have lost 10% of your health by the time their shield is down and woah what happened? their shield went up again in 10 seconds? guess i gotta take some more damage then. literally, boarding and lowering morale are my only options when not facing someone who aren't totally inept cuz regular weapons do nothing.

I've done multiple matches of 2v2 with a Cairn and a Dirge for my Necron build and several 1v1 matches with two Cairns and a Khopesh. I know, I know, it's a bad idea, but I enjoy big ships and it's much easier to micro slow giants than a large fleet of Escort vessels (for me anyways). So, shouldn't a Battleship class ship be able to output enough damage to comparable to whatever the enemies' equivalent can dish out? The Cairn is 492 points. That is not its real point value in its current state. I'm no expert on what makes a ship worth anything, but the Cairn should be able to stand on its own for a decent amount of time against any enemy contingent and deal enough damage to make them hurt. It fares well against Chaos and the Imperial Navy, and I would even go on to say it's alright against Tyranids given their ability to teleport away from their incessant charging and maintain a relatively healthy distance. Sadly, it just doesn't do so well against the Tau or the Drukhari, like almost unbearably so. The Tau have a static armor pen that reduces an enemy vessels armor value to 50, so it basically make the Necrons massive amount of armour a null factor. The ability on soem of the weapons reads, "Pierce-Armour: This weapon reduces its target's armour to 50." I'll look around to other threads about this, but it is ridiculous if you can spam an escort vessel worth 37 points and has two guns with this ability attached to it (this actually happened in a 2v2 match I was just in, which is why I am here). The Drukhari, well, they're too fast and deal too much damage and I don't deal enough damage to kill them. I know I'm whining, but how can my slow ass teleport once every 60 seconds or so ship beat them when I can't deal the damage to destroy their engines... Anyways, hope this input is of some value, or at least helps emphasize that Necrons are having issues in some way.

Played some MP games, and I think the necrons didn't have that much armor in the last beta. Everybody else got buffed too though right?

Won like 5 games in a row with necrons and last patch i think i was winning like one out of 20(without starpulse (ab)use), though not sure yet if its due to armor buff or just me getting bad opponents.

Currently using a fleet armed with maximum amount of lightning cannons (and minimum amount of particle pea shooters) and my heaviest ship is a crusier, cause bc and batleship are way too slow and get focused down in the beginning of the match every time. Also the "split lightning cannon blast" stance is actually working sometimes.

last edited by Bersercker

@bersercker yes it’s a universal armor buff. SM are even tankier. I won a bunch at first, but then my rank passed zero and I on average am winning 2/10 games now.

I think that Necrons need faster (way faster!) teleports cooldown to be more mobile. Making all their weaponry pierce shields would be nice, otherwise the weakness of being shieldless is too big. Also reload time needs to be under 10 seconds, otherwise the enemy will simply recharge shields between hits (if shields aren't ignored that is, obviously).

I feel like the Universal armor buff made necron ships more tanky and survivable but it's kind of detracted by the lack of damage that Necron ships can do- there are a bunch of issues that seem unaddressed by the devs. Their weapons can do splash sure, but for me it doesn't matter because it's so easy to crit any number of necron systems+ the low number of necron weapons per ships. Low rate of fire, modest damage, low number of weapons, low crit chance- this is not a recipe for doing damage, and the way their health regen works doesn't redem any of this because it encourages long drawn out battles to be relevant.
There's so much wrong with the necron, and it doesn't seem that the dev care at all. They see that they have a "46%" winrate and consider all good. 😕

Compare what a necron player gets for 210 points then look and see what an Orc player gets comparatively. It should be plain as hell to see yet... here we are, being ignored by the devs even though this has been brought up by almost every member on the forum I've seen so far. This is not whining, this is not L2P, this is that Necrons in their current form are completely and utterly outclassed by a large proportion of the other factions.

@pointdexter my last match with the Tau had me forget to bring pyramidal so it ended with my BB and BC having all their weapons destroyed. The Tau didn’t even bother finishing them because they couldn’t hurt them anymore.

@nemesor-xanxas
this is why I had to stop using anything bigger than a cruiser- the chance that an enemy can just shoot up my ship at range before I can really do anything isn't something I can live with or manage 😕

@Bould I can't get where they got that 46%. Even drukhari have 46%, but pretty much anyone can agree that Drukhari are among the best factions and Necrons the worst. These percentages really surprised me.

@aram_thehead I personally am starting to think skirmish numbers were added in, that’s the only way that the Druhkari numbers make any sense.

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