[Feedback] Why do necrons still suck

@nemesor-xanxas what were the suggested changes? (brief summary, not asking you to list every single idea obviously)

@nemesor-xanxas

The problem is mate, I'd rather just not!

I'm very much at the point of realising this isn't getting changed and this is not the iteration of Necrons I was expecting or excited for when I first heard them announced. There are so so many ways they could have gone with them being OP on a ship by ship basis but balancing hard around points or the mutiny (phase) mechanic or any other considerably less lazy ways, I mean they seem to have got one part right on how I envisioned it right mind, shame its just about the ships costing a ton!

At the very least tindalos, could you please remove the voice line "inferior ship sighted" I feel it just rubs salt in the wound 😂

Aram, check ANY of the "why do necrons suck" or equivalent threads (there are more than enough knocking around)

last edited by Bould

@aram_thehead I am half asleep right now, so I’ll miss a bunch but the ones I remember (keep in mind that these are a variety of changes from different people, they are not all meant to be applied together though some are):
For Crits:
-Make Pyramidal Free, Because it’s a required patch on a gaping hole in the faction
-give a shield that goes down with damage but doesn’t block any, just stops crits when active
-Make Necrons more resistant as a racial trait
-Let them Regen both types and faster

Durability:
-Increase Regen by 1.5 and remove the cap (this one is mine, I suggested it so they would Regen as much other ships do)
-Guve them brace
-Guve them the armor save they had on TT to help with lances/crits (an invuln save basically)
-Give them more HP to compensate for other races starting with more HP (shields)
-Reanimation Protocols (Troop Regen)
-Unlimited CtA uses

Maneuver:
-Make ID a gauge (spend jumps a little at a time)
-Let the reorient after ID
-Lower ID cooldown
-Keep ID but guve a high energy turn
-Scrap ID and give a gauge like TT
-General speed increase
-Increase turn rate to compensate for no reorient

DPS:
-Increase RoF
-Increase Damage
-More Guns
-Make LAs shield piercing
-All of the above
-Lots Of people wanted this

Variety:
-New Ships
-New Gunz
-Subfaction Abilities
-They have no variety

General:
-Just translate from TT it would solve this mess
-Calc the average stats of other ships, multiply by points and apply to Necron ships
-Make doom scythes not trash
-Balance around morale (more, really hard to kill/fight, but instant phase out when lost)
-Phase out is instant
-Do something about vulnerability to Novas
-Give the immune to celestial phenomena upgrade for free (because it was free in TT and no one will ever use it)
-Make all guns 270 arcs

There is more by I need sleep. Night.

what is CtA? @Nemesor-Xanxas uuuh everything that you mentioned that came from TT sounds really nice. It's a pity that some of it was scrapped. I like the fact that the devs went for teleports instead of gauge though, only problems are the looooong cooldown and the inability to dodge anything (novas, asteroids in campaign etc)

@aram_thehead said in [Feedback] Why do necrons still suck:

what is CtA? @Nemesor-Xanxas uuuh everything that you mentioned that came from TT sounds really nice. It's a pity that some of it was scrapped. I like the fact that the devs went for teleports instead of gauge though, only problems are the looooong cooldown and the inability to dodge anything (novas, asteroids in campaign etc)

Call to arms (the skill that replenishes troops)

I'm personally in favour of the small ID drive use with its own gauge depending on how far you jump within the circle, it actually gives Necrons something to avoid those skill shots you were talking about.

@bould yeah the teleport gauge would be the ideal solution in my opinion. If they get that they might not even need shorter cooldowns I think. (But would be welcome anyway)

@bould yes I meant call to arms. Anyways as you said there are more suggestions in all the only Necron threads. I think even with the gauge though Necrons need a turn, or some way to re orient.

OK after having played the game extensively the last few days, I also have my two cents to contribute to this issue.

First, I don't think that the Necrons are as weak as some of these threads are making them out to be.
I have played a lot of games and I win consistently with my Necron fleet against most other fleets (except Tyranids ofc).

And just for context at the time of this post I'm in Epic ranked number 38 of all Necron players (Image for proof) 0_1548081540911_Capture2.PNG So its not like I've been only playing at the bottom of the ladder.

HOWEVER, with that being said, I think there are some major problems with the Necrons that should be definitely addressed before launch. I'm going to list them in ascending order of relevance:
.

1.- Fleet variety: The Necron ships are essentially linear upgrades of previous vessels that don't add varying gameplay.
Now this does make the faction more repetitive to play than the more fleshed out factions.
Moreover this also means that your opponent instantly knows what he is up against. Having different loadouts for ships, mixing hangars with lances, and ordnance keeps the enemy guessing makes them (and you!) mix up your strategy and provides more challenging and varied gameplay on both ends!

2.- Lack of distinct ship models: YES this is not just a cosmetic issue, it is primarily a gameplay issue!!
Look the matter of fact is that you cannot easily tell the Reaper from the Scythe. The fact that they have 8 and 10 health bars respectively and the models are identical makes it hard to differentiate them, especially in the heat of battle, and you are forced to click on the ship and search for the name tooltip if you want to be sure which one is which.
This is poor game design.

These ships fill the same role, but the Reaper is way way stronger than the Scythe. When playing AGAINST the Necrons, you should be able to tell which ships they are using at first glance. It should not require you to waste time clicking on them or counting little health bars. This is especially important at high level play, where you are microing frantically.
AGAIN this is important for you AND your opponent, and its a serious gameplay concern, especially because the Necrons have this issue twice, between the reaper and the scythe and between the cartouche and the khopesh (although admittedly here its easier to count health bars).

3.- The redlight/greenlight scenario: When playing against the Necrons its sometimes not a skill match-up, but there are clear defined windows of opportunity to capitalize on and if exploited correctly there is no counterplay.

This is particularly accused with the inertialess drive skill and Nova spam, but there are more examples.

For example, lets take the match-up: chaos cruiser vs. Nova spam. Now if you shoot a nova cannon on my cruiser, well I just boost away. Now if you put another nova blast in front of me I can decide, whether I'll try to also outrun it, or use a high energy turn and then boost, and so on. This is what you call a skill matchup, your skill to shoot, vs. my skill to dodge.

Now lets look at the Scythe vs. nova spam. Say you shoot, I can decide to take it, or jump out. If I take it, youre just gonna shoot again and the scenario repeats, if I jump you'll miss that one, but youre just gonna continue shooting me the same way without me being able to do anything from here on now. The point here is that it doesn't matter what I do, I will always eat (Number_of_your_nova_cannons - 1) number of shots, or just a redlight/greenlight scenario. There is no counterplay option as a Necron because of the one dimensionality of ID.
Again this is poor design and a serious gameplay concern, especially since it affects several other points in the Necron fleet (pyramidal reconstruction, starpulse weave, etc.).

Anyway, these are my 2 cents. Sorry for the lengthy post.

@lord-morteabo I really liked the way that you explained the Necron issues. That feeling of inability to control what's gonna happen to your ship is exactly what bothers me (among other things). I'm curious: How do you play Necrons? Fleet build, skills, overall tactic etc.

Necrons needs to be immune to Morale, especially for their ship costs and relative DPS output.

Should definitely add a perk that greatly reduces Inertialess Drive CD for all line ships to at least give an option for more mobility.

Increase base crew numbers or toughness of the crew for Necrons. Too few ships to be getting hulked that fast.

As for ship layouts/ship model designs you can blame GW for. Necrons did not have that fleshed out of a faction before BFG died on TT. Tindalos is working with what they have available.

@dreadspectre the cartouche and the Kopesh at least had unique models, which are not displayed here. The reaper did not.

@Nemesor-Xanxas @Dreadspectre This might be true but the Dark Eldar didnt have the vessels they do now either as far as I remember. Also tyrands have been significantly altered from what they were on TT. So there is no excuse to not do the same for the Necrons.

TT had just simply different requirements compared to a RTS game. In TT you would not be under time pressure. You could just ask your opponent which one the reaper and which one the scythe was. But here you have to make executive decisions in a matter of instants so you need to be able to see what you're up against quickly and easily.

Like can you imagine how it would be if the DE cruiser and BS used the same model, but had their current power level? It would be totally crazy x)).

This is especially important if BFA2 is aiming at a strong multiplayer community with an emphasis on high level play.

@Aram_theHead I tested many different strategies. I tend to use the reaper and the scythe for the most part, the cairn really doesnt cut it for me, its not good enough for its points. I always take a couple of escorts for the pings and the nuisance of stealing their points. In combat I usually focus the engines and try to maneuver my ships towards the rear of theirs, abusing the generous firing arcs of Necron ships. Its incredible the time people will spend genuinely trying to run away while taking fire on the rear and not firing back.

@lord-morteabo i wouldnt be surprised if the decision to limit the necs as bad as they did on ship design was due to GW. If you actually think about it if you were the ultimate technologically advanced race would you bother having variations of your ships or would you simply pack them all in the most efficient box and take advantage of your overwhelming technological superiority. The necs dont have a lot of different ships because they dont need them. In lore necron ships barely ever get scratched let alone destroyed even in the case of the world engine it was on a technicality they were even able to get past it shield.

@lord-morteabo I think I was to brief in my statement. I meant I understand why the reaper is the same, it’s a scythe variant. The Kopesh and Cartouche have canonical and unique models in TT, but are just copy pasted shrouds here, so I’m complaining.

@imptastic sorry about the double post, hard to reply to two on the phone. Anyways, they are missing a large amount of weapons here though, weather from TT (energy drain for example) or spacebattles in lore (solar pulses/flares and chunks of dead stars as pseudo-torps)

@nemesor-xanxas ya that aspect certainly falls squarely on tindelos im sure.

Aside from the Necron battleship, they also have 0 counterplay against moral loss. Feels bad man.

Moral Loss is a nightmare, but as long as u have extra crew, you can repair the deck with Pyramidal Reconstruction and then execute the crew.

last edited by CowGoMoo