Capture Points need to go, or at least give us an Annihilation alternative.

I fully disagree with the OP. Add more scenarios, more creative than silly Annihilation. Capturing points makes the game more tactical than just SPAM the most powerful ships.

It also helps diversify the fleets.

+1 see my post over in the Technical Feedback thread, made some suggestions on how to make the mode more fun.

last edited by DjesusUncrossed

I very would hate only having cruiser clsah. It would be like a shooter with only team deathmatch 😑

Although I can understand people not liking EVERY game beeing objective based, im not sure why the game doesent have a game mode rotation? The previous game did...

@lothair88
And you think having ''Capture&Hold'' is good for game diversity? Adding Annihilation is just a rubber band to fix the main issue that is : We are not getting the big battles we were promised, we're stuck playing cat&mouse in space.

Obviously there needs to be more than just 2 type of maps... and far more than the BS we have right now.

I like the capture and hold. It's a good system.

The old mission types were too random and only cruiser clash would be too flat.

Certainly having only Capture&Hold makes the game repetitive, but only having Cruiser Clash would have the same result, even if we're getting awesome battles meanwhile. As @Demoulius said, having a nice rotation with a variety of game modes would keep things spicy and give a chance to every faction (i.e. a faction that's too slow to be super effective in one mode can shine in another). It even allows for things like King of the Hill, with a single large cap area in the center of the map, for example. Or the "Blockade" mode (or whatever the name was) where the attacker had to get to the other side of the map.

Oh, and I'd love to see:

  1. Random space hazards in MP. They're in the game, why not use them outside of SP?
  2. Dedicated servers, if possible. It would massively help the MP longevity of the game. DoW2 still has players in MP (outside of Last Stand) for this reason...

@necroledo said in Capture Points need to go, or at least give us an Annihilation alternative.:

Certainly having only Capture&Hold makes the game repetitive, but only having Cruiser Clash would have the same result, even if we're getting awesome battles meanwhile. As @Demoulius said, having a nice rotation with a variety of game modes would keep things spicy and give a chance to every faction (i.e. a faction that's too slow to be super effective in one mode can shine in another). It even allows for things like King of the Hill, with a single large cap area in the center of the map, for example. Or the "Blockade" mode (or whatever the name was) where the attacker had to get to the other side of the map.

Oh, and I'd love to see:

  1. Random space hazards in MP. They're in the game, why not use them outside of SP?
  2. Dedicated servers, if possible. It would massively help the MP longevity of the game. DoW2 still has players in MP (outside of Last Stand) for this reason...

Heck lorewise that would be exactly what would happen in alot of cases! An Ork WAAGGH shows up? Good luck killing them in a straight up fight. You cant. You have to go guerilla.

Eldar ships are harassing your lines? Well Eldar dont play fair 😂 they use their speed and stealth to good effect and can win wars without even so much as flying into a single 'fair' engagement.

You are defending a world and a space marine strike fleet is showing up? Well better destroy them all in time before....to late one came into orbit and disgorged their cargo on your world.

All of the fleets have their own pro's and con's and alot of the scenario's in the base game (except cruiser clash) would allow them a chance to shine in some form or another. Turning each game into cruiser clash will get very boring very fast and would kill the game for alot of people in my opinion.

Give players something else to worry about other then controlling 5 points or wiping out the enemy fleet and you will greatly increase this game's longevity.

Adding random events un mp will just cause players rage about unfairness

Also ships cost should be reduced for all factions by 10-15% so you have more tactical options ans can also buy a few escorts or LCs as an anti cap force without gimping top much your main fight force

last edited by Beernchips

@beernchips Are you sure? They're equally unfair to everyone except for Solar Flare, with Tyranids and Craftworld Eldar being inmune to it. Remember all the space whales and explosive jellyfish, for example: those can create opportunities for clever players. They're all in the game to offer variety, and not having them in MP makes little sense to me, as it reduces the variety of the game mode even further.

@necroledo said in Capture Points need to go, or at least give us an Annihilation alternative.:

@beernchips Are you sure? They're equally unfair to everyone except for Solar Flare, with Tyranids and Craftworld Eldar being inmune to it. Remember all the space whales and explosive jellyfish, for example: those can create opportunities for clever players. They're all in the game to offer variety, and not having them in MP makes little sense to me, as it reduces the variety of the game mode even further.

Too much RNG guts the potential for strategy. You already have random map layouts, with random placement of objectives. Imagine starting a match with asteroid fields all over the place on your side, with all the objectives at centre or your opponent's side. Now throw in a random issue on top of that, making you waste even more time or start out with damage. You'd almost certainly lose, and you'd be pissed because it was outside of your control. Likewise, for the winning player, it'd feel like a garbage win, because it had nothing to do with you.

@romeo said in Capture Points need to go, or at least give us an Annihilation alternative.:

@necroledo said in Capture Points need to go, or at least give us an Annihilation alternative.:

@beernchips Are you sure? They're equally unfair to everyone except for Solar Flare, with Tyranids and Craftworld Eldar being inmune to it. Remember all the space whales and explosive jellyfish, for example: those can create opportunities for clever players. They're all in the game to offer variety, and not having them in MP makes little sense to me, as it reduces the variety of the game mode even further.

Too much RNG guts the potential for strategy. You already have random map layouts, with random placement of objectives. Imagine starting a match with asteroid fields all over the place on your side, with all the objectives at centre or your opponent's side. Now throw in a random issue on top of that, making you waste even more time or start out with damage. You'd almost certainly lose, and you'd be pissed because it was outside of your control. Likewise, for the winning player, it'd feel like a garbage win, because it had nothing to do with you.

The unfair situations you mention, in which one deployment area is clearly inferior, can and are already dealt with by the current terrain generator. It did happen sometimes in the previous game, but in this one I've never felt my deployment area was an unavoidable mess of asteroid fields and/or stations, or that one player is clearly benefitted by the distribution of capture points (something that is also irrelevant in Cruiser Clash, which seems to be going to make a comeback in MP too).

Since the terrain is already being generated in a fair way, adding random space hazards that affect everyone equally should not create unfair situations, but simply introduce a greater variety of situations players would have to get creative with, while reducing the monotomy of it.

@necroledo

I've literally had half a dozen matches on the second Beta where every single objective was at least 40% away from my side, with most being on my opponent's side, and asteroid fields buggering up your ability to navigate to the objectives are still random, just not physically present in deployment zones as much now.

For what it's worth, I absolutely love the hazards - but I'm a singleplayer. I can absolutely admit that randomization has no place in a competitive multiplayer scenario. If more variety is desirable for Ranked play, I'd recommend other game types, rather than just randomization.

For campaign the problem isn't with the capture mode it self, it can be fun. The problem is that there is nothing else and for single player that is death, randomised terrain or point locations won't change the AI and if you know your always going to win why bother?

Playing space tag with Eldar in the first game wasn't my favourite type of mission, but I played the hell out of skirmish mode until I worked it out and enjoyed doing so. During a live stream someone spoke about the auto resolve feature and I laughed, why would anyone want to? Question was answered half way through the Cadia Beta, Bringing back mission variety for campaign and skirmish is a must.

For pvp I'll cede to the more learned players, my pvp experience is normally against the same three people with the occasional random match for lols, I expect game 2 to be same. However..

I do think to much importance is placed on ranked play overall, give ranked matches a dozen well crafted maps that you can build on, and a map maker and a way to share them to the community as a whole to have fun with. Hell you may never need to make another map again just green light the popular and balanced stuff into ranked play with or without capture points.

I did say i knew little of pvp 🙂 I would however watch the crap out of a pvp tournament featuring the elite player base, say best of three matches with each player picking a map and one random from the official ranked list.

Well, developed listened and decided to enter the destruction, and now I have a question. It seems that there will be either a destruction in the company or a domination. Why not both at once? 50/50? It is much more interesting than one mode forever.

@demoulius said in Capture Points need to go, or at least give us an Annihilation alternative.:

All of the fleets have their own pro's and con's and alot of the scenario's in the base game (except cruiser clash) would allow them a chance to shine in some form or another.

Please no, I don't want 95% Corsair winrate vs Orks on Data Recovery and 95% Orks vs Corsairs winrate on Space Station Defense like in the first game. Balance the factions so that any faction can beat any other faction in any match (even if that means using only one mode).

And the capture point system makes for much better games than Cruiser Clash, where everyone just balled up and the heavier ball chased the lighter one around the map. I WOULD like to see escort capping specifically made less effective somehow, even if that's just a minor nerf by making cap speed depend on total tonnage on the point instead of number of ships. Or allow them to cap but not decap, so "backcapping" with an escort no longer works.

last edited by Jamodon

@jamodon said in Capture Points need to go, or at least give us an Annihilation alternative.:

@demoulius said in Capture Points need to go, or at least give us an Annihilation alternative.:

All of the fleets have their own pro's and con's and alot of the scenario's in the base game (except cruiser clash) would allow them a chance to shine in some form or another.

Please no, I don't want 95% Corsair winrate vs Orks on Data Recovery and 95% Orks vs Corsairs winrate on Space Station Defense like in the first game. Balance the factions so that any faction can beat any other faction in any match (even if that means using only one mode).

And the capture point system makes for much better games than Cruiser Clash, where everyone just balled up and the heavier ball chased the lighter one around the map. I WOULD like to see escort capping specifically made less effective somehow, even if that's just a minor nerf by making cap speed depend on total tonnage on the point instead of number of ships. Or allow them to cap but not decap, so "backcapping" with an escort no longer works.

Thing is, if they stay true to the lore you will get exactly what I said. Eldar fleets arent made for shot at. They are relativly fragile. So if you are going up against Orks and expect to come out on top in a brawl you will be seriously dissapointed in the result.

Thats not to say that they cant win. But not every fleet performs in the same manner and in a way, they arent made to be balanced. Their fleets are made to their own strengths and have their own weaknesses. Dealing with that and coming out on top is where the true fun lies.

They should be balanced in another way though, each faction should have their own thing that they are good at, and that balance is sorely lacking at the moment....

Having more scenario's to play will add alot of longevity to the game thats its currently missing but tossing anything other then cruiser clash out of the window because people dont want to use tactics is abit silly....