Campaign First Play: The Good, The Bad & The Ugly

i can agree with the capture and hold game mode i think it dosnt work for certain factions at all like the impiral navy (excuse the bad spelling ) who are quite the tanky navy but when you face off against faster factions like theeldar or chaoscause with great armour comes slow speed would like to see a variety of missions for the campagn without capture and hold

It desperately needs an option to swap ships around fleets, or merge understrength ones.

Other than that, the capture points every battle except the special "campaign objective" battles gets rather tiring, especially when that last little escort decides to go silent running and bzooming along the map.

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@t3rminator300 if you think it’s bad for the IN remember that the other playable campaign features the slowest least maneuverable race in the game. In a cap only battle setting.

@nemesor-xanxas yeah thats actually very true its kind of one sided depending on who you are facing

@t3rminator300 the fact stations cap two points before you get one doesn’t exactly help. With Necrons you have to quickly clear the board or you lose because of this.

i can honestly say as of right now i have no interest in finishing the necrons campaign due to take and hold and just how poorly the feel to play. As for the imp campaign if i finished it it would be solely for the story and i would never play the game again after that save for trying the nids. Given those feelings ill probably refund at launch if the issues are not addressed.

The issue with 'currency' is a pressing one. Even when you start upgrading the systems you hold, you still don't recieve much in the way of a resource generation buff, and you are looking at investing 250 resources to get 60 per turn back, so it takes a while for an upgraded system to start paying for itself. That doesn't include the cost of system defences, and upgarding ship yards to gain more construction points and the capacity to build larger ships is extra, and then there is the cost of maintaining your fleet and purchasing new ships. Add in the timer effect of the urgency system, and the current level of resource generation feels woefully inadequate.

More generally on the timer, I undertand why the developers inculded it, to stop players turtling up, building up a huge fleet, and then steamrollering everything, and to add a sense of urgency to the conflict, but I still can't help but find it annoying, because it stops you from platying the way you want to and feels inappropriate for some factions.The Imperium being stretched fits the scenario of the 13th Black Crusade, but the implacable Necrons who have been in stasis for 60 million odd years? The Tyranids who operate on time scales of hundreds of millions of years and travel between galaxies over the course of millennia? Why would they have the same kind of timer mechanic?

I also second your point about the power of system defence platforms not being added to the strength of enemy fleets in system. It is misleading, and can cause you to commit forces to an assault while being unaware of the true strength of the forces present. It would be a simple matter to display system defence strength alongside fleet strength to avoid this issue.

The take and hold mission system isn't ideal. It isn't as though there is even debris fields, dormant orbital weapon platforms, or wrecked space stations to form some kind of indicator of what makes that area strategic - it is just a blank expanse of open space. It makes little sense in the campaign, and doesn't seem to work well in the multiplayer, encouraging spamming as many stealth frigates and light vessels as possible, and perversely disinsentivising actual ship to ship combat, which is surely the point of the game.

In all honestly, I was very glad of the auto resolve option in the campaign, sicne it let me dodge out of endlessly playing take and hold missions.

@nemesor-xanxas yeah that's one thing I find a bit stupid it puts you at a massive disadvantage cause the enemy team can cap point immediately and leave you just to lose the match cause you missed on defencive platform

In fact, the problem of the first game in terms of balance was in abilities, not in ship upgrades, improvements did not give as much as hell 5 Stasis bombs or Eldar storms. Bleeding the crew did not give a big win and in general, we always chose the same pumping, no one pumped Navigator. Only abilities not to improve were multiplayer cancer, but developed they decided to cut them both. And this is the wrong decision, this is what many now whine about. Everyone wanted to have more options than a couple of improvements that do not work on all ships, and some are useless, they are still almost all the same.Also in the last beta, the graphics were spoiled and now the first part looks better. Perfectly

Update now that I've played through the Imperial and Necron campaign:

Good

  • Necron Campaign is quite a bit more fun.
  • While I haven't played them, obviously, I appreciate that you're giving us options to turf the less fun aspects of the campaign.
  • Necron campaign is closer to where the resource income probably should be for the Imperials.

Bad

  • The campaigns just kinda close. A little heads up that they're done would've been nice, I figured it was a crash.
  • The Necron campaign is also against Chaos, which was quite disappointing, having just played exclusively against Chaos with the Imperial campaign.
  • Necron upgrades are noticeably weaker than their Imperial equivalents.

Ugly

  • The Necron campaign really highlightls how few units the Necron have. There's one Light Cruiser option. One Cruiser option. No Grand Cruiser option. One Battleship option.
  • Having played through both campaigns, I still can't escape the feeling that this is enough singleplayer to be fun for very long. Even with the option to disable the god-forsaken Take and Hold, that just means a bunch of Cruiser Clashes back-to-back, with no option to individually customize ships OR heroes. The game needs variety to be fun long term. Until there's a solution to this problem in particular, I'm going to have to refund, there's just not enough meat on the bones.

On the economy and income/turn. Look for Hive Worlds....once you get their evolution upgraded (imperial campaign: first system and the upper left hand corner of the sector), you are fine. Always check on what your fleet is using each turn. If you have no or only a little surplus, your fleets are too large. After the special missions you get a full fleet with 3x dauntless....nice present, until you check your balance...that present ruins your economy.

Anyone else didn't get the lvl up bonus? Lvl up screen told me about 500 and 300 ressources, but I didn't get any of those. That 100/turn works though.

@exard3k said in Campaign First Play: The Good, The Bad & The Ugly:

On the economy and income/turn. Look for Hive Worlds....once you get their evolution upgraded (imperial campaign: first system and the upper left hand corner of the sector), you are fine. Always check on what your fleet is using each turn. If you have no or only a little surplus, your fleets are too large. After the special missions you get a full fleet with 3x dauntless....nice present, until you check your balance...that present ruins your economy.

Anyone else didn't get the lvl up bonus? Lvl up screen told me about 500 and 300 ressources, but I didn't get any of those. That 100/turn works though.

Even with the entire system under my control and just two fleets, I was still making about 100 resources per turn, which means doing pretty much anything takes a minimum of two turns. The economy drags the game pace too far down in the Imperial campaign.

control of systems don't give you anything....you need to upgrade the systems to get any difference. And two full fleet is the maximum you can use in most battles because of minefields and are still higher in value than your leadership is (aka max fleet size in battle).

If you still have a decent surplus while having basically maximum fleet strength for your main progress through the sector is a good ressource balance.

As far as I could see in the first sector for both campaigns, you as a player has to make choices....to either go full fleet strength or keep your fleet size balanced in favor of economic progress aka investment. Do I get a Strike Cruiser for my Fists or do I spent that money on Evo3 hive world upgrade that results in me being able to much more easily field additional ships in the future, but for the next battles I sacrifice fleet strength for it. These were my decisions in the Imperium campaign on Epic difficulty I played three times already. And I really like it that way.

Maximum fleets and plenty of ressources to do all the upgrades makes the economic and strategic aspect of a campaign pointless. And regarding the first sector....if you have 2x400 fleets around you outnumber fleet size any chaos forces even on epic difficulty has.

last edited by Exard3k

@exard3k said in Campaign First Play: The Good, The Bad & The Ugly:

control of systems don't give you anything....you need to upgrade the systems to get any difference. And two full fleet is the maximum you can use in most battles because of minefields and are still higher in value than your leadership is (aka max fleet size in battle).

If you still have a decent surplus while having basically maximum fleet strength for your main progress through the sector is a good ressource balance.

As far as I could see in the first sector for both campaigns, you as a player has to make choices....to either go full fleet strength or keep your fleet size balanced in favor of economic progress aka investment. Do I get a Strike Cruiser for my Fists or do I spent that money on Evo3 hive world upgrade that results in me being able to much more easily field additional ships in the future, but for the next battles I sacrifice fleet strength for it. These were my decisions in the Imperium campaign on Epic difficulty I played three times already. And I really like it that way.

  • That was including having everything except Penal Colonies fully upgraded. Which, as I said, takes forever, thanks to the incredibly slow income rate.

I'd argue that it's extremely limiting, not "well-balanced". You have to upgrade certain planets more than others. Then you have to upgrade your fleets enough to be able to fight. You don't have the option to pick ones you want to pick, not like the Necron campaign.

And again, I'm happy for you - but there's nothing preventing you from making decisions to not do things. Between the cost to improve a fleet (As we have to delete ships to upgrade, after all), and the cost to take the "must-have" planetary upgrades, there was never enough time to upgrade fun things. If you're really concerned about it on the hardest difficulty, than keep the income linked to difficulty with a punishment at harder difficulties. Personally, the Necron campaign was vastly superior to the Imperial one in my eyes specifically because I had more freedom to work with.

@romeo hmm at the end of the imp campaign was generating 166 per turn with everything maxed... i only every bought 2 ships one was the escort they forced me to buy and the other a LC for the SM fleet. Im curious to see how it plays out in the long run i have a feeling the necrons wont keep seeing as fruitful systems as the first as the campaign drags on.

@imptastic said in Campaign First Play: The Good, The Bad & The Ugly:

@romeo hmm at the end of the imp campaign was generating 166 per turn with everything maxed... i only every bought 2 ships one was the escort they forced me to buy and the other a LC for the SM fleet. Im curious to see how it plays out in the long run i have a feeling the necrons wont keep seeing as fruitful systems as the first as the campaign drags on.

I had upgraded all my auxiliary fleets up (New Cruiser for SM and AM), while my IN fleet I completely maxed out. I finished with I think 112 or something like that.

I can't really comment on the Necrons, I only got to use them in the opening system. Perhaps they run out of juice later on, or perhaps they end up needing so much upkeep they slow right down. I can't really speak to either case though.

your income balance is heavily dependent on your fleets....my last run (epic again) had a surplus of 261 ressources. A single strike cruiser (which is a juicy choice because it fits in nicely into your fleet and is quite a powerhouse) can be the difference between "wooooo with 30/turn I can't do shit now" (and you don't wanna sell that pricy and great ship the next turn you notice that) and "1-2 upgrades a turn...smooth upgrades, making a solid progress on economy now".

If you are new to the system BFG2 has, it can be rather frustrating the first time you get access to that big ass ships only to find out you screwed yourself up because you bought it. In my first game I had 1 Ressource/turn while having 20 on the bank....well...s*it. I think this happens to most people and we don't know yet how the economy will scale in later sectors, so this might just be a sector 1 problem.

After release this will certainly be a problem to lots of players doing that mistake like we did...but once you get familiar with the campaign mechanics and economy, it's more a value than a problem.

And as far as I could see....getting your fleet up to the maximum isn't necessarily required to stay competive vs. the AI as your Leaderships value < 2* max fleet size.

I conquered a system vs. 1,3k chaos system with 350 fleet size on my side....I ignored the enemy station and only killed ships while holding 1-2 points. I lost, but on purpose....the next turn left the enemy with 300 fleet + turrets + station vs. my 350 fleet and I won. Took two turns instead of one, but guerilla raiding works too...you don't need to attack with 900 points of ships to progress as an average player.

@exard3k

Until they ax the horrible Take and Hold crap, I was completely dependent on fleet strength, because I'd started to do auto-resolve for everything. And a game system that pretty much leaves you in a fail-state if you play the game naturally is far from a good decision.