Banditks Campaign Feedback

Hello,

I would like to say overall this is a wonderful step in the correct direction for campaign mode of this game. Pretty much everything the last campaign did has been improved, bad things removed, and new things added.

The story is great so far, lots of detail, great voice acting, and interesting main characters. The first few missions are well crafted. Saving those few ships at cadia was quite hard but doable and you get the reward of a fleet after which is great.

The campaign map is easy to read though I agree with some of the other posters that highlighting or making the resource producing planets stand out in some way is a good idea. Maybe some sort of color code for each of the type of planets along with the iconography.

The ships are awesome as ever and the little upgrade tree based of renown rank is a perfect addition. I do wish there was a little more to each ship, more customization, and personalization so these critical vessels mean more and are badly missed when destroyed.

Being able to customize the LC and higher class ships, change out weapon combinations, make special tanker, DPS and special weapon ships would be a great way for the players to have a greater feeling of ownership over what they work so hard to earn.

I know there are three factions to play with in the Imp campaign but the Imperial fleet and adeptus mechanicus ships on face value see a bit too similar the light macro battery on the LCs of both groups are the exact same, dps, range, hit chance. I was expecting more differences to be there. I do know the torps are different and the speed seems to be different. However, I was expecting more contrast,

the Imps would be the mid-range gunners going broadsides and just duking it out with tanky ranged damage ships medium boarding damage.

Adeptus Mechanicus would be Long range gunners better accuracy, crit chance, weaker hulled, weak boarding [which they are now] but generally just shoot the crap out of things at range and be able to heal up their ships when damaged.[where did that ability go?]

Space marines are capital ship knife fights, deadly close range, deadly boarding actions, bad at medium and long range, low gunner damage but high health ships to get the marines into boarding range. So far it feels like Imp Navy and Space marines and no third group to pick from.

The Campaign battles are fun but having the ticking arbitrary capture the point total isn’t actually all that fun. Maybe only attach that style of combat to the systems with a planet that is “Strategic”? It would be very frustrating to have the whole enemy fleet destroyed and all that’s left is to kill some defense platforms but to lose because a number got to a certain point. OK boys time to go home with our massive fleet that could totally win given an extra couple of mins to blow up these platforms…?
I know the mission-based objectives “get the baby ships across the map” and “Steal the data!” may have not gone over well but the variety was a little welcomed.

Maybe make the basic battle type be the knock out drag down fleet battles that this game is built up for.

Make the “baby ship escort” have reason like, An Agri world that doesn’t have a clear path to your sector capital produce a mission of that type to gain the benefits of the planet buff for a certain number of turns. Get more ships to the other end and get more turns.

Make the “Steal the Data!” mission sort of a hit and fade, like it is in the first game. Move a fleet into a system that has an enemy fleet of [Number] strength so you can steal those enemy plans and step back to the end game ticker

Make the “Planet strike” a way to have a smaller fleet attack a certain planet to turn off its buff for a certain number of turns? The defenders have a smaller defending fleet as well with reinforcements on the way and the longer the attacking player stays the more enemies that show up? But if the attack does more damage to the planet its buff stays away longer?

The campaign ticker was fine until I read that at the end is ‘game over’ I play a lot of strategy games and I am more methodical about how I move across the board. Take, hold, improve, move on, is my normal plan, rushing across the map to snap up stuff seems like a long-term problem in the making and just isn’t fun. Perhaps give the -option- to turn off just the ‘game over’ end to that ticker but we still suffer under the weight of more frequent attacks? I know the feel and theme of Warhammer but optional is just that people who want it can click the box and others can leave it as is.

The new campaign is wonderful and I want more already, I would love to see a Tau campaign and honestly everyone getting their own campaign would be wonderful.

Co-op thank you so much for adding this into the game. I really hope you expand it and allow full co-op campaigns where two players are leading different parts of their chosen faction not just splitting up fleet battles. I would really like to encourage you to move on this so in march we can have fully realized Co-op campaigns.

I could give more specific ideas if the Devs would like to read them.

I agree about highlighting resources and about the platform thing. When the enemy has defence platforms, they can capture 2 (or even 3 points if they have the station) before you capture even one. Then you don't really have time to destroy both fleets and platforms and also capture points.
I think that planet defenses should not capture points. Maybe the space station can, but the smaller platforms no.

@banditks said in [Banditks Campaign Feedback]

The ships are awesome as ever and the little upgrade tree based of renown rank is a perfect addition. I do wish there was a little more to each ship, more customization, and personalization so these critical vessels mean more and are badly missed when destroyed.

  • More personalization would be great, individual paint jobs and such...i bet some could stay ages in the fleet painter if this becomes a thing. xD

Being able to customize the LC and higher class ships, change out weapon combinations, make special tanker, DPS and special weapon ships would be a great way for the players to have a greater feeling of ownership over what they work so hard to earn.

  • Won't happen. Games Workshop, the owners of the BFG brand, won't allow it. They never allow any video game dev or publisher to change anything, because the ships (or soldiers) in the games are based on real life plastic model kits. So only these are copyright-protected. They would open Pandoras Box in terms of copyright issues if they would allow this.

I know there are three factions to play with in the Imp campaign but the Imperial fleet and adeptus mechanicus ships on face value see a bit too similar the light macro battery on the LCs of both groups are the exact same, dps, range, hit chance. I was expecting more differences to be there. I do know the torps are different and the speed seems to be different. However, I was expecting more contrast,

  • Wait a bit more. Pretty much all cruisers of the AdMech have additional long range lance turrets, they all run Nova Canons instead of torpedos...give them the lance range upgrade later on and you'll have your long range fleet. Besides, you need to stay at long range, because AdMech has far less crew, so get easily overwhelmed in close quarters fights by boarders.

the Imps would be the mid-range gunners going broadsides and just duking it out with tanky ranged damage ships medium boarding damage.

  • That's basically what will happen later on. 😉

Adeptus Mechanicus would be Long range gunners better accuracy, crit chance, weaker hulled, weak boarding [which they are now] but generally just shoot the crap out of things at range and be able to heal up their ships when damaged.[where did that ability go?]

  • As I said above, that's what AdMech is. The ability is now restricted to the Necrons and a bit to the Tyranids.

Space marines are capital ship knife fights, deadly close range, deadly boarding actions, bad at medium and long range, low gunner damage but high health ships to get the marines into boarding range. So far it feels like Imp Navy and Space marines and no third group to pick from.

  • Space Marines are atm low health, low shields, but extremely strong armour with insane boarding power and the quickest ships for the Imperium. They are your weapon of choice against Necrons and any Aeldari faction later in the campaign.

The Campaign battles are fun but having the ticking arbitrary capture the point total isn’t actually all that fun. Maybe only attach that style of combat to the systems with a planet that is “Strategic”? It would be very frustrating to have the whole enemy fleet destroyed and all that’s left is to kill some defense platforms but to lose because a number got to a certain point. OK boys time to go home with our massive fleet that could totally win given an extra couple of mins to blow up these platforms…?

  • Well, that's what they are there for. So either risk sending some smaller ships off to handle the platforms and cap those points, or lose. It makes attacks more challenging. 😉

I know the mission-based objectives “get the baby ships across the map” and “Steal the data!” may have not gone over well but the variety was a little welcomed.

  • Data theft is still in there...only more concealed. You'll see it in the full release version. 😉

Make the “baby ship escort” have reason like, An Agri world that doesn’t have a clear path to your sector capital produce a mission of that type to gain the benefits of the planet buff for a certain number of turns. Get more ships to the other end and get more turns.

  • Actually a good idea

Make the “Steal the Data!” mission sort of a hit and fade, like it is in the first game. Move a fleet into a system that has an enemy fleet of [Number] strength so you can steal those enemy plans and step back to the end game ticker

  • As i wrote, wait for it. It's in there, just not as you would expect. 😉

Make the “Planet strike” a way to have a smaller fleet attack a certain planet to turn off its buff for a certain number of turns? The defenders have a smaller defending fleet as well with reinforcements on the way and the longer the attacking player stays the more enemies that show up? But if the attack does more damage to the planet its buff stays away longer?

  • I (and my friends) HATED planet strike...I don't want it to return, honestly.

The campaign ticker was fine until I read that at the end is ‘game over’ I play a lot of strategy games and I am more methodical about how I move across the board. Take, hold, improve, move on, is my normal plan, rushing across the map to snap up stuff seems like a long-term problem in the making and just isn’t fun. Perhaps give the -option- to turn off just the ‘game over’ end to that ticker but we still suffer under the weight of more frequent attacks? I know the feel and theme of Warhammer but optional is just that people who want it can click the box and others can leave it as is.

  • Yeah, I would like it more if they would just make it very hard to keep enemy counter attacks at bay if you wait too long. Basically enemy invasions from all sides. If you are good enough to hold them back, well nice for you...but if you are not you WILL lose fleets and planets!

The new campaign is wonderful and I want more already, I would love to see a Tau campaign and honestly everyone getting their own campaign would be wonderful.

  • Yeah, give us a Damocles Crusade DLC!

Co-op thank you so much for adding this into the game. I really hope you expand it and allow full co-op campaigns where two players are leading different parts of their chosen faction not just splitting up fleet battles. I would really like to encourage you to move on this so in march we can have fully realized Co-op campaigns.

  • Coop is nice. Now we need Versus. xD

I could give more specific ideas if the Devs would like to read them.

last edited by Hjalfnar_HGV

@Hjalfnar_HGV
Its too bad they wont allow the customization of ship loadouts. the last tabletop release for that game was around or over 6 years ago. they don't even seem to advertise it on their website. You would think they would allow some wiggle room with a dead product line.
In dawn of war you can customize your troops/tanks weapon loadout, army color, ect.

The space Marines in the battles i have played just feel weak compared to the other two factions to pick from. Boarding takes too long compared to just shooting the ship out from under them as the Imp navy or Ad-mech. And there are too many weapon abilities that lower, ignore, or get around armor further decreasing the marines ability to stay in those ultra close knife fights not to mention everyone else has higher accuracy at those distances. Being resource strapped in the campaign ,which is good, lead me to shelve the space marines all together and focus on the imps in all three runs of the tutorial campaign. granted i haven't fought the necrons or the space elves yet on the campaign. All in all i feel the space marines are just lacking something.

I really just don't like the arbitrary number ticking even when you have won the battle all enemy ships are dead and there is nothing to stop you from taking the system. you can lose anyways because of a number not attached to any real thing just says 'nope you lose' when in reality you have already won. its an artificial challenge and so has no meaning when you lose to it.
Now i know people like being pushed and racing against that timer, and i am not saying remove it completely, but make it only in some places not every single flight in the game. and i have sent escorts to blow away the gun platforms that aren't a risk at all, 4 escorts beat gun platforms every time. no risk or challenge just a time sink.

I saw in the tutorial that if you board enemy capital ships you can steal papers that then transfer to the campaign map but there is no audio que or any sort of feedback when you successfully do that. A dedicated and optional mission for players who did like the battle mode in the previous game would solve that.

And yes i wasn't a big fan of planet strike, Thats why i was thinking, making it completely optional and have campaign map impacts would make it have reason, for those dread times when the enemy shipyard needs to be turned off for a turn or two so you can get a fleet into position but you don't have the firepower to actual take the system in whole. give the mission reason and be optional might improve how people see it. improving the mode on the battle map would be good too.

A full co-op and verses would be welcome additions. I would like to see both.

And being we are mere days from release the beta we see[play] now is not going to change much from the release we get which i understand there is only so much one can do in a 24 hour period on a game this complex.

@banditks get 2 SM vanguards in the same fleet put them on running silent, sneak up on choas line shipe, double assault boat board, double honer thy chapter skill, launch assault boats and you have probably hulked that chaos line ship.

@imptastic Are the Vanguards the LC or C? I am want to give it a try but I don't have the game up right this very second. Do the skill before launching boats or after? or does that really matter at all?

@banditks LC i believe one step up from escorts. it doesnt really matter when you launch the boats you may want to use fighters first on your aproach so your boats dont get shot down but at the end of the entire exchange if you didnt hulk the chaos ship it will only take one more boat or lightning strike to do it and youll cripple the ship pretty bad.

last edited by imptastic

@imptastic Alrighty, that's not too bad for resources I could pair those two ships with a fleet of Imp ships to act as meat shields to increase the marines time to do that over and over.

@imptastic
Alright i ran 6 tests of LC marines [with admiral having boosted terminator squad]
Vs
Chaos LC with 9 Green troop strength

I ran with 5 Marine LCs

I was not able in those tests to replicate the hulk death but i got close only once.

Skill = For the chapter
Boat = Assault boats [always covered by two fighter squads]
Light = Lightening attack
G = green troop strength
Y = Yellow troop strength
R = Red Troop strength

I did light attacks one at a time to measure out how much damage so i didnt spam 5 lighting attacks all at once.

Test #1
9G - 2 Skill attacks = 1G
1G - 2 Boats = 8Y
8y - 5 light = death

Test #2
9G - 2 Boats = 10y
10Y - 2 skill = 5Y
5Y - 4 Light = Death

Test #3
9G - 2 Skill = 5G
5G - 2 boat = 1Y
1Y - 1 Light = 6R
6R - 1 light = 3R
3R - 1 light = Death

Test #4
9G - 2 skill = 1G
1G - 2 Boat = 7R[whoa crit!]
7R - 1 light = 3r
3R - 1 light = death

Test #5
9G - 2 skill = 4G
4G - 2 boat = 6Y
6Y - 2 light = 7R
7R - 1 light = 5R
5R - 1 light = 3R
3R - 1 light = Death

Test #6
9G - 2 skill = 2G
2G - 2 boat = 4Y
4Y - 1 light = 2Y
2Y - 1 light = 8R
8R - 1 light = 4R
4R - 1 light = 1R
1R - 1 light = Death

I did find a lot ship systems getting blown away during these tests.

@banditks dont use lightning use the close range one and i was doing it in the campaign if that matters.

@imptastic
Alright I can run some more tests with using 2 skills then 2 boats, then only use skills after that.

@banditks you should be using the skill one honor the chapter, the close range boarding skill cant remember what its called but the one that shares the same cd as lightning strike, the assualt boat ordenence from 2 SM LCs then they should be hulked or pretty close to it, may have to duke it out or run away till the cd is back on one of your boarding skills but youll kill them way faster than they will kill you especially if you blow out all those systems.

@imptastic
I have the game up right now and the short range skill is called Honor Thy Chapter

@banditks its called boarding action, is the button with the two swords crossed like a pirate. so you use boarding action, honor thy chapter, and the thunder hawk squadron (assualt action one). the boarding action skill shares teh same cool down as lightning strike but does 4-6 troop damage vs the lightning strikes 2-3 troop damage.

last edited by imptastic

@imptastic
Just ran 6 more tests
5 Space Marine LC
Vs
1 Chaos Marine LC
Each time i did it in this order
2 Honor Thy Chapter
2 Boats
then i used up the rest of the Honor Thy Chapter [which was 3 more]
and still needed in all 6 test cases to use 1 to 2 lighting strikes to get them to hulk.
If you are curious of the exact run down i can post that.

However you want me to try
Broad side boarding action [2 times?]
Honor Thy Chapter [2 times?]
and then boats? [2 times?]
And this should result in a hulk nearly all the time?

last edited by Banditks

@banditks ya try that it should get you hulks or at least very close to it every time.

@imptastic
Alrighty I have been able to test that method 3 times with each being 1R to 2R from hulk, even the pasty Ad Mech lighting strike and finish off a Chaos LC with that little troop strength left. I did all tests with the same 5 Space Marine LCs

Still that needs minimum 2 space marine with carrier escort for fighter cover.
And to be safe you should run 3 space marine LCs

And thats ignoring the annoying capture the point mechanic present in every single regular campaign mission just to chase down and hulk[not kill] a single Chaos LC
[does the AI take back their own hulked ships? i haven't seen that happen.]

I still feel the space marines need a bit more punch not sure what to suggest other than the impossible [add more ship types] What do you think? do you feel they are balanced with most of the other races? if people who like to use the space marines feel they are good then i would rest my case in their favor and say everything is fine.

using basically all the abilities of 2 to 3 space marine ships and more escorts needed to help the boats make it is a lot of resources to tie up to focus hulk a single chaos LC.

However in my rapid fire mission tests in the battle vs AI i have seen more fatal errors, and complete game freezes today than since every day prior for this 2nd beta test. So i am going to take a break and play something else lol.

@banditks i havent seen them take back their ships they will scuttle them every now and then. As for how effective the strat is next time u try it see how long it takes you to hulk that ship vs damaging it down with an imperial navy fleet or an admech fleet. when i play the campaign as it is now i generally just take spire and his escort with the 2 marine LCs have the ecort stealth and go for one node have spire go for the closest and have the marine LCs go for the one thats most likely to be contested. when the lcs get to the contested one unload the suprise boarding party have spire micro jump in and finish hulking it if need be then work on the escorts/other LC until i generally win by annihilation.