[Community Update dev response] The Capture Point game mode needs to be Subjected to exterminatus

This is a really fun beautiful well made game but this capture point game mode is really bad. You can have an epic battle but who ever wins that battle ultimately does not matter what does matter is how much escort ships that are left over. I personally find it ridiculous that you can have a full fleet of cruisers left after the main engagement yet you will still ''lose'' to your enemy if they have a few escorts ships left. Your enemy can claim ''victory'' even tho the majority of there fleet is in ash's. This ''tactic'' [if you want to call connect the dots a tactic] Ruins what would otherwise be a fun battle and it happens for 90% of the games i have played so far. No one wants to chase little escort ships to Holy Terra and back for 10 minutes either. Replace or add cruiser clash and this will all be resolved.

My Sympathy's to the artists/devs that where not involved making of this utterly ridiculous mode it will ruin what is otherwise a great game.

Act fast.

[UPDATE: Response from devs concerning the Capture Point game mode called ''domination mode'' here]

“I don’t like the domination mode in campaign.”
Well, It will be pretty easy for us to add a game option that allows the player to remove capture zones during campaign battles in order to play with just the “extermination” win condition. We still believe that domination mode provides a better in-game experience, as it adds a tactical layer to battle as well as improving the game balance, but we understand the desire to annihilate your enemies.
We’ll do our best to deliver this change for the release. If we cannot, it will be implemented with the first patch shortly after launch. We will keep you updated on this as regularly as possible.

Link to full post
https://steamcommunity.com/games/573100/announcements/detail/1708454708463056750

Great step in the right direction. All we need now is an annihilation mode for multiplayer battles.

They are acting fast.

last edited by Admiral Lucius

Personally I like the capture points, in that they make fleets that aren't just 'bring the biggest damage' viable, but if the majority of games are being won by escort caps i think the points to win should be increased such that cruisers have a chance to move to capture points after the main engagement.

I think there's a happy middle ground somewhere in there where the two strategies would each stand a chance of winning.

@ctravisty said in The Capture Point game mode needs to be Subjected to exterminatus:

...but if the majority of games are being won by escort caps...

This isn't a thing. I have played several matches now and it has never come down to having the most capture points. You get a substantial amount of points from destroying ships. In a close match where both mostly wipe each other out in the "main" engagement and one has 2 Escorts where the other has 1 Cruiser I can see the Escorts winning but honestly that is a well deserved win imo. If you have multiple Cs leftover against multiple Es you got more than enough points to maintain a solid lead that will buy you time to position 1 C on each cap point to ensure the win.

@ctravisty said in The Capture Point game mode needs to be Subjected to exterminatus:

Personally I like the capture points, in that they make fleets that aren't just 'bring the biggest damage' viable, but if the majority of games are being won by escort caps i think the points to win should be increased such that cruisers have a chance to move to capture points after the main engagement.

I think there's a happy middle ground somewhere in there where the two strategies would each stand a chance of winning.

That's not really a concern in BFG anyways. You're still going to have the nimble as all hell Eldar/Dark Eldar, who might not compete on raw stats, but can flank the enemy to death. You're still going to have the Tau, who again, are sub-obtimal in a close-range fight, but can snipe out particular threats before the battle really gets going. You're still going to have variety in how fleets fight. But Take and Hold washes away an alarming amount of those strategies. If you're a slower race, you're basically always fighting a desperation fight, because fast races will set a win timer for themselves. It's also made certain ship classes - chiefly Escorts - in to 100% necessities. They aren't just a piece of your army, used to scout or harass stragglers. They're the single most important part, running around taking over the objectives while stealthed.

Frankly, I'm not a multiplayer guy, but I'd rather lose due to being outmanuevered, outsmarted and outplayed, rather than losing because a countdown timer ended the match.

If you use escorts only to cap, you are likely to lose the main engagement because you can't scout.

If you bring lots of escorts so you can both scout and cap, you are going to have a smaller main battle force.

The system is very balanced but also very misunderstood.

last edited by Adm_Janus

@Adm_Janus
I do not think the balance is the issue in this case. I think its the lack of fun a lot of ppl are having with this mode.
For me, it just doesnt feel right, and is quite emersion breakin' in campaign. Besides beein the wincondition, there is no (in universe) reason for me to capture the points.
But I think this is a easy fixable issue.

For MP, reduce the number of Zones from 5 to 3, add the option to queue for specific game modes, or add CC and the old Break Through mode from Armada 1 to rotation.

For SP add meaningfull objectives, like I suggested earlier.
Give us defence plattforms/ repair stations / ancient ships with parts of SCT's to conquer and to buff our fleets.
In addition to that, remove the ticket counter for SP entirely. Im aware that changes like this take time, so meanwhile at least mix the game modes up a bit. Its just frustating to have more or less the same battle in every system.

@djesusuncrossed said in The Capture Point game mode needs to be Subjected to exterminatus:

@Adm_Janus
I think its the lack of fun a lot of ppl are having with this mode.

This.

If it were of the same style as the first BFG I would say to create a "job board" of sorts where players can choose to select a specific job or just queue up without selecting a job to be thrown into the first available 1v1 or 2v2. If you choose a job on the board you accept that it might take longer to find matches. If there are currently no players trying to do jobs then either you get a straight up battle or it picks a random game mode.

Since it's not and there's no immersive MP progression then the zones seems like the most balanced way to do things currently. No one being honest would claim that straight up fights would be fair in any way for some of the factions.

I understand your point.

The problem with variety is an old one, after all the problem is that space is mostly empty. In RTS that are ground based you can make all kinds of different maps but in space not so much.

They already did a very good job with the asteroids, clouds, obstacles, cap points and even exotic effects to enhance map variety. I appreciate that.

Regarding the take and hold, I would only suggest one change: make points decap over time if a ship leaves the point before it is fully capped. Right now if your ship drifts out of the control point at 99% of the cap it instantly resets to zero. A gradual decrease would be better

I agree, I'm simply not having a lot of fun playing "connect the dots" as another user pointed out.

The system is take ans hold. A lot of people just take and rush blob to the other VP then cry coz an escort capped their back

I would recommend to change the point system to the one of DoW1/2 and Company of Heroes 1/2: The points only tick if one side controls the majority of points.

Also, go down the way Star Wars: Empire at War went with their space skirmish maps, set up asteroid mining stations...not to mine credits as they did in SWEaT, but to add some more meaning to the point placement. You could also use derelict ships, space stations and space hulks. They would also provide cover for damaged ships and add some more tactical depth to the maps besides asteroid fields and nebulas.

@hjalfnar_hgv said in The Capture Point game mode needs to be Subjected to exterminatus:

I would recommend to change the point system to the one of DoW1/2 and Company of Heroes 1/2: The points only tick if one side controls the majority of points.

Also, go down the way Star Wars: Empire at War went with their space skirmish maps, set up asteroid mining stations...not to mine credits as they did in SWEaT, but to add some more meaning to the point placement. You could also use derelict ships, space stations and space hulks. They would also provide cover for damaged ships and add some more tactical depth to the maps besides asteroid fields and nebulas.

I like your ideas. In addition, I don't think outright removing this game mode would do any good because it reduces the variety, but it needs tweaking. Just removing it would seem like a lazy and unimaginative solution to me.

last edited by Necroledo

@djesusuncrossed said in [Community Update dev response] The Capture Point game mode needs to be Subjected to exterminatus:

Besides beein the wincondition, there is no (in universe) reason for me to capture the points.
But I think this is a easy fixable issue.

Would have to disagree, as I have seen someone point out before that armies fighting over strategic points is a thing on every battlefield. Yes this is space and you don't see the reason, but if needing to be so literal, then imagine an important resource at that point, or it is a prime location for a mobile base.

@Voccio
Hm, honestly? If I wanted to imagine things, I would read a book. But agreed, this is a minor reason to dislike the mode.
Still the AI cant handle it at all. It just runs into the zones, ignoring tops, bombs, rams...basicly anything. Which in turn makes the game far too easy.

last edited by DjesusUncrossed

I do and don't like the cap points systems. on one hand it's really annoying to deal with a player who has nothing but an escort at the end.

Though.. it's also helpful to deal with players who do nothing but kite. Like someone with 4 chaos battleships and kits you and does nothing else, unless you're one of the faster fleets you won't have a chance to catch them. So IMO keep the cap points, but I would say slow down the amount of time it takes to get the caps.

@neighbor-kid said in [Community Update dev response] The Capture Point game mode needs to be Subjected to exterminatus:

I do and don't like the cap points systems. on one hand it's really annoying to deal with a player who has nothing but an escort at the end.

I have only encountered this a handful of times, most of the time players will either warp out or suicide their escorts once the main fight has been lost. Sadly there are a few that will draw out their inevitable defeat rather than doing the "noble" thing. I usually just ask them to warp out because the match is over.

I have now officially lost one match from point control in which we were winning the main fight. They had possession of 4 of the 5 points for the majority of the match while we focused on the fight. We still had the [point] advantage until they managed to take out my main ship in a surprising upset. I still feel like they deserved that match because they managed the point control as well as the main fight very well. They took out my escorts(which I was using to cap/uncap points) while also doing a good job of kiting the main battle. They were down to 1 C and 2 Es while my fleet was wiped out and my ally had 3 Cs left. Was an enjoyable fight even if we were a bit frustrated when we saw the points going in their favor after "winning" the battle.

EDIT: Also something to note, people would do this in Cruiser Clash as well in the first one. Eldar would commonly draw out fights until people were frustrated and left or until they just made mistakes due to things drawing on so long. Point control at least has an end in sight rather than knowing that it could literally go on for hours if you let it. It became common for people to just leave immediately when they saw they were against Eldar.

last edited by Alandauron

@alandauron put a ten minute timer on the fight and give whoever has the most ship value at the end of the fight the win. problem solved.

@imptastic said in [Community Update dev response] The Capture Point game mode needs to be Subjected to exterminatus:

@alandauron put a ten minute timer on the fight and give whoever has the most ship value at the end of the fight the win. problem solved.

Is it though? I can see that leading to some very annoying matches and another bout with Eldar supremecy. They would go in, focus fire a ship or two to get some points and then run away the rest of the match. Not really a solution compared to how they currently have to actually sit on objectives to capture them.

@alandauron is it the best solution maybe not but is it better than playing the chase the escort nonsense defiantly. the adverse to your example would be that if they bunched up and dropped an eldar ship then the eldar would be forced to be overly aggressive or lose the match.

last edited by imptastic

@imptastic said in [Community Update dev response] The Capture Point game mode needs to be Subjected to exterminatus:

@alandauron is it the best solution maybe not but is it better than playing the chase the escort nonsense defiantly.

Once again I haven't encountered this very often and when I have it has still resulted in the player with the Escorts attempting this ending up with a loss. As I have experienced it(except once) after the main fight has ended the "winner" has a significant point advantage and more powerful ships left. After the fight you just have to control 3 points until the match ends to ensure they can't gain a point advantage. Choose the 3 points closest to each other and organize ships to best control that area of the map. No, Cruiser Clash is not superior to Point Cap in regards to balance nor in regards to fun. Even with Point Cap you get a big fight before you have to play the chasing game.

EDIT: Worth noting, I would love to find an alternative to Point Cap but in a competitive game mode with several factions that aren't exactly balanced it would result in people playing 2-3 factions(with specific builds) that are the best in straight up fights. Point Cap adds in a bit more flexibility of choice currently.

last edited by Alandauron

Looks like your connection to Focus Home Interactive - Official Forums was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.