When armor got buffed, all macros got nerfed as a result. We can only assume the lance specific nerf is to keep lances in-line with macros.

In the end, all standard weapon systems do less damage now. If they did not nerf them then lances would be, relative to macro weapons, more powerful than they have been in previous versions.

@imperatorspooky lances are 100 percent to hit whereas said macros miss im not sure on all the numbers but i dont think they are as far apart in damage as you think especially when you are doing long range sniping macros are useless for that.

No the accuracy is irrelevant. Even if 40% of your shots hit you do more damage with most macro cannons type weapons than almost any lance.

I can share my mathhammer if you'd like, the numbers just stack against lances at all turns.

@imperatorspooky some lance weapons have further range than macros. chaos currently is the only race that has them in enough of an abundance atm to be used for that tactic tho. lances are however supposed to be weaker than macros unless you are going up against a high armor foe that has always been the case.

I have been testing the effectiveness of thick armor and lances vs, macro weapons too. You are still better off with light crusiers with macros. I agree that chaos is the only faction than can field them effectively and that annoys me too. At least with their speed they can use them effectively to kite.

Since the nerfe playing chaos is really frustrating. It takes forever to even take out an escort.

I was under the impression that armour was a flat out percentile decrease to damage? Not sure where I saw it, I think the tooltip itself?

Either way the previous game it was a percentile chance to negate damage entirely. Maybe its that again if its not a flat damage decrease?

Lance weapons shouldnt in particular do more crit damage though. Things like boarding actions and bombardment cannons are known for that. Instead they are a very reliable way of doing alot of damage.

While macro weapons should be able to outdamage them, it should only be in very specific circumstances. When all their weapons hit and armour isent a factor (or as little as possible) in all other cases it should be abit unlikely that lances are outperformed, especially at long range.

The way it is now, is completly reversed

Lance mechanics are fine. The issue is mainly that IN broadside lances in particular suck ass and have for 2 games and 4 betas lmao.

The nerf is actually more than 33% because you have to consider the armor for the calculation. When you compare them with macro batteries you can see there is almost no point to use them anymore (unless fighting necrons or SM)

While armor was previously considered as 25 and now as 50, it looks like the nerf is only 33%.
But when most ships have 67 armor, this means the "removed" armor was previously 42 and now is only 17
This armor reduction was the only advantage of lances over macros (100% acc is not really relevant due to the increased dps of macros)

Let's compare macro vs lance
Before (9k range) :

• vs 67 armor :
  macro : dps * 33% * 60% acc = 19.8 % of the dps
  lance : dps * 75% * 100% acc = 75 % of the dps
  ->Lances are 3.78X more "efficient" than macro at 9k range but it makes up with the fact macro does 3-5 more dps and have increased crits (+ you can use lock on stance to reduce acc penalty)
• vs 83 armor
  macro : dps * 17% * 60% acc = 10.2 % of the dps
  lance : dps * 75% * 100% acc = 75 % of the dps
  ->Lances are 7.35X more "efficient" than macro at 9k range and this is where they were shining

Now :

• vs 67 armor (most common situation unless you are vs necrons or SM) :
  macro : dps * 33% * 60% acc = 19.8 % of the dps
  lance : dps * 50% * 100% acc = 50 % of the dps
  ->Lances are only 2.52X more "efficient" than macro at 9k range and they are way below what macro can deal with the dps difference
• vs 83 armor
  macro : dps * 17% * 60% acc = 10.2 % of the dps
  lance : dps * 50% * 100% acc = 50 % of the dps
  ->Lances are 4.9X more "efficient" than macro at 9k range and it gives them only a meaningless advantage over macro for such armored target (completely nullified if macro is combined with lock on stance)

Conclusion : at 9k range vs normal 67 armor target, there is no point to use a lance anymore as the total damage done is less then macro

Lances are not mean to outclass macros at 9 range or less. Their main value is in the 100% hit chance.
And for those asking: IN lances are and always were bad compared to Chaos.
The funny thing is that with the perk that reduce the accuracy loss with range, Chaos macro also outshines their own lances at higher range

The Lences of the Empire is absolutely not needed now, take a couple of Apocalypses and fight the Orc, and see what damage they cause

@beernchips said in Lances nerfed?:

Lances are not mean to outclass macros at 9 range or less. Their main value is in the 100% hit chance.
And for those asking: IN lances are and always were bad compared to Chaos.
The funny thing is that with the perk that reduce the accuracy loss with range, Chaos macro also outshines their own lances at higher range

Lances outclassed batteries in all ranged except for very short ranges. Is 9000 range the new 'short range'?

Lances werent bad compared to the chaos variant either. Unless chaos having more range instantly makes them sucky...... Range is really the only advantage they had. IN could just close in and even the scales with their batteries.

Now they really messed up chaos. With release they cancelled the bonus of the reload Stance for lances. In addition to the previous nerf of the armour piercing now you can forget playing chaos ships with lances. Very sad
I am dissapointed, because the lances were essential for my kiting fleet.

And only to mention, chaos had the 2nd worst winrate. There is no reason to nerf chaos further.

25% nurf to lances is brutal. I cant even chip the paint off of necron ships anymore and SM rofl as they board me.

If they are gonna nurf the armor pen they got to improve the alpha.

@torgen. Yeah... Only real viable fleet for chaos is LC spam with carrier bringers

Tyranids and Space Marins are eating ships in a seconds? Drukkari raping you from stealth? Tau bomb-spam everything to death? What do we need to do? Nerf lances!