Lances nerfed?

@kavabingo yea.. I really dont understand where the lance nerf came from.

It never felt OP in the beta and lance boats cant trade with projectile boats once they are within range. You will lose everytime.

@canned_f3tus in the first test lances with lock on were disgusting. You'd not only crit the shit out of everything all ships had 25 armour and a good 50% fewer hit points.

Since then lances have had several indirect nerfs.

Hit points at least doubled

Armour pen halved

Lock on bonuses reduced

A lance boat that would take 120 seconds to kill something now takes around 5-6 minutes to kill the same target.

Lances need love.

last edited by Bosie

Ahh, I see Tindalos is at it again.
Nerf-hammer the heck out of everything that is remotely good.

I don't know what I hoped for really.

last edited by Ahriman

@Ahriman more like someone in Tindalos has flashbacks from the first BFG:A beta, where chaos was tearing everything apart with it's lances and he just can't let it happen again.

last edited by Kavabingo

I called for a nerf during the first test to lock on, not the lances.

I also supported the increase in time to kill. However the ap nerf, no.

@bosie
Not your fault that fixing issues in a singular worst possible way is their trademark already.

For Tzeentch's sake Tindalos, get your act together and start actually balancing the game, not nerfing what needs no nerf.

Return lances to at least their previous state, and try to fix your SM/Necro boner in a more viable way.

Edit:
Ok, I'm starting to go on a hate spree here but seriously, where's that Tindalos from post release of BFGA 1, who could quickly and properly fix the issues presented? Without messing up big time? What went wrong?

last edited by Ahriman

AP nerf was needed because it screw necron too hard but instead of changing from count armor= 25% to count armor = 50% lances should have "reduce armor by 25%" so it not OP vs 83 armor and still viable vs everything

If they actually buff necron to actually do something then lance hurting them more wont be too bad.

@beernchips 50 % (or more) reduction would be more fair
83 -> 42 armor a small buff compared to beta 2 and necrons wont be as penalized as in beta 1
67 -> 34 armor middle ground between beta 1 and 2

With current situation lances are really bad due to poor Dps (max 2)
Macros do way more damage even at long range (despite accuracy malus)
Also macro can benefit either from lock on or reload stance
While lances can not rely on anything to increase damage output : reload has no effect anymore and lock on only increase range (crit chance is negligible with the base 1% of chaos Lance's, for IN with their 3% this is a huge diff for them) which is useless due to the "small" maps and the fact the enemy can reach you quickly

I do not get why Chaos is getting nerfed so much

@alien109
Someone in Tindalos really hated how they were the most reliable and solid race in the first game.

That and/or someone has a really hard boner for Necrons.

But seriously, this is no way to solve balance issues.

"Hey, faction A is too weak, what do we do?"
"How about we nerfhammer everyone else so they are equally weak!".

This is literally removing one of the most important traits of lances, which is armor piercing.
Bring back proper lances, think of a way to make Necrons better.

FYI, we do know how armor works now. a post for general mechanics Q & A was created and this was one of the questions.

https://forums.focus-home.com/topic/34802/short-questions-short-answers-if-you-need-help-with-game-mechanics-or-lore-stuff-just-ask/22

@ezycompany101 the given formula is incorrect and should actually be

Life = Life - Damage * (100 - Armor)/ 100

I think it was already described ingame before that post
Armor simply work as percent value of attenuation
0 armor means 100% of the damage is applied (100-0)
50 means half damage is applied (100-50)
87 means only 13% of the total dps is applied
100 armor basically means invincible

The armor system is a basic calculation but actually too simple to work ingame as it is hard to balance. This is like increasing HP of ships except that the armor can be fully or partially bypassed by some weapons

lances in practice are fine they just need to up the damage on them a smidge on chaos only to account for the non imbalanced team having to take a nerf because druhkari, SM, and necron problems.

I think the major problem is the doubling of the hit points. After that taking out of a ship takes too long. When an escort is sieging one of your strategic points it is nearly impossible to take it out with lances, even with your whole fleet, before it steals the point from you.

@torgen the hit points stayed the same lances just do less because the amount of armor they ignore changed if you know the equation to figure out just how much damage is mitigated then it should be relatively simple math to figure out how much damage you need to add to get them to do the same amount they did before the armor buff. given that lances decide how much is mitigated inherently its actually an easy fix, i.e. a lance will hit a SM cruiser for the same as it would hit an aeldari corsair cruiser, the armor value of the ship is irrelevant to the damage equation in that point.

The poor Gothic class has the prettiest of prows, but the worst of the broadsides. The Lunar doesn't know what it wants to be. Chaos lances essentially have to win on caps because they can't kill fast enough to win otherwise.

Push their behavior to extremes- Give the imperial short ranged broadside lances +2-4 damage, and the chaos long ranged broadside lances increased fire rate. Macro weapons can be fun but they're currently the right choice in every circumstance, let lances have a situational role too.

@imptastic said in Lances nerfed?:

@torgen the hit points stayed the same

No, they doubled hit points due to the low time to kill. Ships were just melting at first.

@bosie what first test are you talking about? Do you mean beta 1 or one of the closed alphas? In beta 1 lances already felt weak in my opinion.

last edited by Aram_theHead