Necron feedback and why they are trash fleet.

After playing beta for last 5 days I can see with certainty, necrons are bad like really bad. Before they at least had starpulse that could trash half fleet if enemy was stupid enough but now.

  • They are slow buts ok that's how necrons roll.
  • They have nonexistent turn speed without maneuver gauge so once you are circled than you are circled until you inertia-less drive cooldown ends
  • Nonexistent dps for ship price.
  • Very good armor and hull regeneration. Which for reasons beyond me is caped.
  • No shields, gets crited so often that it's not even funny.
  • Did I mentioned that their ships are expensive, almost 500pp for cairn that do absolutely nothing if your enemy is even remotely skilled.
  • Basically instant lose to ad mech nova cannon spam or chaos long range lance sniping.

Right now whatever you win or lose with necrons basically depends on how bad your enemy is not how good you are.

Now how our dear developers could make them competitive again.

  • Massive cooldown cut(half or even more would do) on inertia-less drive and boost to rotating speed.
  • ether massive boost to dps or cut pp costs as right now enemy sheer dps per second is always significantly higher than necrons, which is ridiculous by both game and lore standards(crons outgunned like wtf is that).
  • remove regeneration cap or boost regeneration speed to equalize ships durability to that of other faction( ships with shield down will simply disengage and regen while other will take its place cause necrons are and should be outnumbered(but not to that degree) and necrons will accumulate dmg)
  • boost armor, necrons don't have shields and fact that anybody with brace for impact can posses more armor is just plain stupid.
  • fix morale, necrons mutiny is just wrong. Either give them massive boost and disable its regeneration and after reduced to zero they will "warp out" or reduce dmg taken.
  • And most importantly pyramidic reconstruction to admiral ship as passive, skills are meant to be option not must have to even be able to play.

@prospector4811 well summarized. I welcome you to the good Make Necrons not trash fight! One day we might even get the devs to listen if more of us keep coming!

how many necron ships does it take to out range orks? we dont know necron ships cost to much to find out.

+1 from me too. While they might have benefitted a bit from the most recent balancing pass, they still feel... somehow artificially capped, if that makes sense. Sure, they can't be hyper-destroyers like in the lore for balance reasons, but right now they could use some more help. My most wanted buffs would be:

  • Inertialess Drive cooldown. It's super long even with Reload stance, to the point I wonder if it's bugged and it just doesn't get reduced by the stance as it should. Taking away 5-10 seconds from it would make a great difference, other fleets have mobility abilities more readily available.

  • Weapons cooldown. Damage per shot is nice, but those guns could shoot a teeeeny bit faster. I'm always in Reload stance for this and the ID issue, and they still feel sluggish.

  • Crit self-repair. Pyramidal Reconstruction really feels like a must-pick, and that goes against the tactical variety that abilities are designed to give. I'd love Necron ships to self-repair crits of all kinds slowly over time, even those that would be permanent for other factions.

  • Ships costs. It's hard to even be able to field just 4 ships sometimes. A teeny reduction would be welcome. Or, apply the previous buffs to make the ships more worth their current cost, and don't change said cost.

Also, please please please consider adding more ships to the roster. Other factions have several variants of the same ship with different armaments. It feels sad to see the Necrons roster and have about half of the variety of any other faction, or even less, for no apparent reason (if other factions get variants, why not the Necrons?).

last edited by Necroledo

@necroledo On cooldown and rate of fire: as I understand it reload is bugged and doesn’t buff RoF right now. Might not fix ID either. What I want most is pretty simple, some ships and some Szarekh damn DPS. Maneuverability is important but secondary, with everything else far less important than those three.

last edited by Nemesor Xanxas

A lot of this is good and Necrons certainly need changes and buffs, but your suggestions would be too drastic if combine.

50% cool down on ID means instant win vs all space marines and tyranids fleets with upcoming nerfs to boarding.

Some global issues also hit necrons hard like crits. There are far, far too many crits and ways to buff crit chance in this game.

Crits also tank moral, which factors into the necron mutiny issue.

@cowgomoo where did they say they were nerfing boarding?

@CowGoMoo The in progress changes were shared in a private channel and were not made public. Remember where you get your info from both out of consideration that others will likely not be aware of it and concern that the devs may not want it shared.

The devs are clearly aware of the tyranid problem, as stated in their public announcement, and tyranids rely exclusive on boarding... So it's not hard to draw such a conclusion.

last edited by CowGoMoo

@cowgomoo i think the nerfs they do to nids will stay with nids going after boarding in general will make SM garbo again. there may be some clever ways to lessen boarding and not screw over SM but that is to in depth for them this close to launch. I think they are going try to balance it vs point cost first and move on to adjusting their troop damage after.

@CowGoMoo There is a lot more to it than just boarding to be fair.

I agree with most of this, albeit not all at once, but I do think the crons need some pretty sweeping changes across the board to be viable.
Personally, I'd do the following in regards to simple stat changes right now:

  1. Give Necrons a passive save or resistance to all criticals, including system criticals.
  2. Boost their speed and turning across the board, above average when compared to Imperials. Even the Cairn should be as maneuverable as a grand or battle cruiser.
  3. Simultaneously increase their points costs further AND up their DPS. I agree that there's a point where a faction can become "too" elite / powerful per unit, but the Necrons aren't close to that yet. The Cairn is probably the only non-Titan ship that I can think of that deserves to be 600 points, and it should have the stats to back it up.

In regards to DPS, I don't think raw DPS increase is necessarily the best way to go, at least not in its entirety. Rather, as per the original fluff in the tabletop where Lightning Arcs are described as "Stored solar energy is released as a forest of
living energy tendrils which envelop targets
probing for weaknesses.", they should have minor armor piercing as well. Not lance tier, but something to help get through armor considering the Necron's lack of lances in general.
This alone would probably be enough to push their DPS high enough in general, especially considering their distributed lightning stance, but if that's not an option

As for "wishlist" changes that I'd like to see in the near (or not-so-near) future, there's certainly a few!

  1. Make night scythe squadrons a combined fighter-bomber squadron, so that Necrons can have at least marginal offensive ordnance.
  2. Give a little bit more love to Necron's, design wise. Unique models for the Cartouche and Khopesh would be nice!
  3. Weapon variants of ships in general would be excellent, whether that be something as simple as a Jackal with a single particle whip.
  4. Another weapon type; perhaps Heat Rays as a very short ranged lance weapon that cause fires on crits, similar to Tyanid pyro-acid? Another might be Death Rays, likewise a very short ranged lance weapon that has a high chance of causing crits or even collateral troop damage.

As for what I do feel is right with them, currently, I feel as though their non-crit durability is in the right place. Hull alone feels meaty and tough enough (although it could be a bit higher, maybe an extra 50-100 for escorts, 100-150 for LC's, etc...), and their regeneration is wonderful if you can ration your jumps (and not have your engines blown out) to disengage and regen, and the cap ensures that they can still be brought down via attrition.

Also weapon reload rate is problematic with arcs lightnings at 15s and no other weapons enemy shields can rege a bit between each salvo

@prospector4811 I am finding them pretty powerful in both 1v1 and 2v2 I think a lot of people don't realise the potential of the puls in killing all torps and aircraft, this is so strong as it can shut down the carrier and torp spam when u use one pulse after another that's pretty dam strong and then using dispersed lighting arc to hit every ship in 9k allows some serious damage to a whole fleet especially when taking out engines so they cant run, combine this with the scarab swarm and you're hp regen and you can melt enemy fleets and keep your healing especially if you can fight in a cloud and get the extra hp regen.
fast escorts for capping whilst main ships engage the enemy fleet using teleport to get out of bad situations and avoid torps or if you have em on the run jump on their face.
Im not saying they are the best fleet in the game but i do think most people don't play them right as they seem pretty tanky and practically immune to carrier spam when i play them.

@lordprinceps said in Necron feedback and why they are trash fleet.:

  1. Give Necrons a passive save or resistance to all criticals, including system criticals.
  2. Boost their speed and turning across the board, above average when compared to Imperials. Even the Cairn should be as maneuverable as a grand or battle cruiser.
  3. Simultaneously increase their points costs further AND up their DPS. I agree that there's a point where a faction can become "too" elite / powerful per unit, but the Necrons aren't close to that yet. The Cairn is probably the only non-Titan ship that I can think of that deserves to be 600 points, and it should have the stats to back it up.

All of this would work, although increasing points further I'm not a fan of. You can only run 3 capital ships currently...

.... they should have minor armor piercing as well. Not lance tier, but something to help get through armor considering the Necron's lack of lances in general.

Guass cannons already fill this gap.

  1. Make night scythe squadrons a combined fighter-bomber squadron, so that Necrons can have at least marginal offensive ordnance.

They do minor hull damage already. They suck, but you can kill small isolated ships with them.

last edited by CowGoMoo

@cowgomoo

Necrons should have very few capital ships anyways, that's kind of their deal: Ludicrously powerful, but few in number.

And I think they meant Scythe Squadrons should be able to deal good hull damage (On par with that of a bombing squadron), because they've only got three absolute uses, to everyone else's returnable three fighters, three bombers and potentially three assault boats. They're extremely weak for the amount of negatives on them.

@romeo
They have very few capital ships....3 at most is fewer than any other faction can field. Also, increasing points has the result of further reducing potential fleet compositions, which is already fairly small.

Necron fighters are already fighter/bomber hybrids. Maybe they need a dps buff, but that's not the same thing as suggesting their fighters be fighter/bomber combos.

Clarity is important. If you provide feedback to a dev and tell him you want a certain game mechanic implemented , and that mechanic already exists, everything else you have to say will be devalued.

@sn1percat said in Necron feedback and why they are trash fleet.:

@prospector4811 I am finding them pretty powerful in both 1v1 and 2v2 I think a lot of people don't realise the potential of the puls in killing all torps and aircraft, this is so strong as it can shut down the carrier and torp spam when u use one pulse after another that's pretty dam strong and then using dispersed lighting arc to hit every ship in 9k allows some serious damage to a whole fleet especially when taking out engines so they cant run, combine this with the scarab swarm and you're hp regen and you can melt enemy fleets and keep your healing especially if you can fight in a cloud and get the extra hp regen.
fast escorts for capping whilst main ships engage the enemy fleet using teleport to get out of bad situations and avoid torps or if you have em on the run jump on their face.
Im not saying they are the best fleet in the game but i do think most people don't play them right as they seem pretty tanky and practically immune to carrier spam when i play them.

If you are facing anyone truly competent, they will know they are facing starpulse, and given the cheapest source of it costs more than some battleships, they will have more torps/ord than you will starpulses, and then you get hit unavoidably. So you die. Alternitively, if you are Eldar, they just get within 1.5k, release torps before you can react, and do the 180 maneuver out. This is effective as each torp run does half a scythes hp. Meanwhile the seriously lacking DPS prevents taking advantage of the dispersed arc stance, as even then you are not on par DPS wise with the average imperial fleet and you won’t get many crits as you have no crit stance. Scarab heal is nice, but you either have to sacrifice pyramidal (which means you probably lose) or recall (which means no mobility). Also, unless you stay very close together you won’t be able to heal non Admiral ships, which makes you vulnerable to ordinance like nova cannons and such, and it isn’t effective with the cap as the cap will quickly outpace it unless you are melting to say dark Eldar, in which case it won’t save those ships. And for escorts they are rather terrible, and lose to almost all others. Should the enemy try the same thing, it cannot contest the points. It also can’t do anything should it be a point capping fleet you face, and the rest of the fleet won’t catch them. Even assuming all goes well with this strategy, you’ll never catch Aeldari fleets (Druhkari, Corsair, Asuryani), you’ll never outbrawl brawler fleets (IN, Orks), never survive boarding fleets even if they do not bring enough assault boats and just rely on lightning strikes (Nids, SM), will still melt to lance fleets (chaos), never survive nova fleets (Mechanicus), and get critted into oblivion by crit fleets (T’au protector). The only fleet this works well against is Tau merchant because of escort spam. Any fleet that spans escorts can be dealt with, but otherwise...

@cowgomoo you’ve said this before, but I’ve never seen them do it nor does it say it anywhere I see. Where did you get this info?

@Nemesor-Xanxas
SO no crits stance is mitigated by the ability that gives 100% increased crit chance against marked targets (as i always bring some escorts this works fine for me)

Eldar getting close is something I just expect when against craft world eldar (I am highly ranked with C eldar so i find i can catch most of their torp tricks as that's my favorite strat) and as such I can react fine to the close range torps and due to the range they get boarded and the pulse does damage to them as well + getting shot with these to combine an engine is taken out most of the time which means my scarab swarm kills them with the fire from the ships.

the limitation of star wave plus is needed as it is powerful i use my ships in close proximity to make it work however i am selective at what i use it on i.e. fighters i will let syths and point defence deal with (some carry spam cases this is not enough but not many) so the only thing i really use the puls on is torps and bombers + boarding craft. I have gone up against nid carry spam and space marine light cruisers spam (the one with torps and launch bays) and I have not had many issues.

The lack of dps whilst the guns could do with a small damage buff they are still decent and i can generally cut through most fleets pretty well with dispersed arc and scarabs. You have to rember any dps increase will be magnified by the dispersal ability so they do need to be careful when they buff it as it can easily become op

pyramidal and scarbs is what I use, I do think pyramidal would be good if it was something you get on you're flagship as its a must pick in any situation but that combo seems to work well for me. I stay close together to rely on scarbs yes nova can be a problem but if i am against admech or imperial nova spam most of the problems are gone as i honestly don't rate the ships associated with those builds and i relize quick that i can spread as i don't need overlapping pulses to keep safe.
in terms of cap, i find the escorts (jackle) to be pretty effective and fast at zipping around scouting and capping.
with orks and nids it's not about out brawling its about taking the flagship down so the rest of the fleet runs away screaming and most of the time i can achieve this.

One thing that is needed though is a moral boost ability or a flat increase as i have had a few games now when my capital is on 1/2 hp (granted its reigned a lot) yellow crew the enemy's on the run asides from 1 ships and my capital decides to run away XD.

I will also say the teleport needs fixing as it says you can reorientate youre self and you cant and thats painful for the battleship

last edited by Sn1percat

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