Necrons: Graphically on point, Mechanically flawed.

I'd just like to preface this with saying I've played all the beta's so far, and while available have only played as Necron's online.

I love the foundation of this game and really want it to succeed, and I think the two things it needs to do to do that is promote and support fostering a multiplayer community, which has allowed dawn of war to survive in popularity for a decade, and fulfill the thematic fantasy of all the factions with the fleets competitive play-styles in the meta.

Right now, the most viable build I've found for Ranked 2V2's is to do mass Escorts running silent with a shroud flagship and capture snipe while kiting.

This is ridiculously far away from how they should be: slow, very tough ships with burst mobility that people want to outnumber to take on.

The largest case in point being the Carin Battleship: What should be the most powerful battleship in 40K lore will currently never see use in competitive multiplayer and it needs to be looked at as soon as possible:

  • It is too weak in DPS and durability for it's point cost, I believe it should cost slightly more but have that increase in power to be more lore accurate.
  • To make up for this I believe its main engines should be made slower still, but it's turn rate increased slightly
  • In terms of boarding the ship is also very weak and should have more troops

The Necrons in general are at a really odd place, as their lack of shielding leads them open to ordinance skills more than any other fleet, with intense fighter management needed to prevent the boarding from a skilled player.

I propose a system to mirror the tabletop "armour save" system, while we don't want stupidly powerful necron ships running around they must be the tankiest faction to fulfill the lore expectations, I believe this could also solve the issue of the weakness to ordinance:

  • Give necron ships a percentage chance, increasing in chance the larger the ship class, of ignoring critical system damage per roll

I think that as a simple system could do a lot to fix the path of the necron faction design and bring them more in line with what people expect them to be, alongside a slight point and dps Increase, and a very slight reduction in inertia-less drive jump cooldown across the board.

And as a very minor note, could we have weapon particles change to the separate dynasties weapon colours, not just everyone green?

I'm looking forward to hearing others take on the Faction and playing with you all online, Cheers.

@paravox I agree with you with most of your assessment, but I don't think the Cairn should be slower, and if anything all of their ships could stand to be a bit faster, or at least have much faster turn speeds to help sell the idea of inertialess movement. The buff they need most desperately is getting void shields. As you said, they're just too vulnerable to boarding and ordinance, though their Starpulse Wave from their bigger ships helps mitigate that somewhat. Maybe have an additional Call to Arms charge for line ships to help recuperate troop losses (and maybe rename it to Resurrection Protocol for teh fluff), and buff the Resurrection Sphere (1 troop regen is absolutely useless, I never see anyone use it).

They really are not vulnerable to ordnance, unless you run something like LC spam.

I think we are past the point where anything we say now will have an impact on release, so lets just wait and see what happens.

@cowgomoo It's still worth mentioning so that it might get noticed and fixed in later patches. I'm not confident it will be fixed before release either, but one can still hope, eh? Also, by ordinance, I mean nova cannons and bombs (which if you don't have inertia drive ready, well, sucks to be you) and things like lance batteries and other super long range weapons with high crit rates. Torpedoes and fighters/bombers aren't really an issue unless you don't have ships with Starpulse or are bad at timing with your interceptors.

last edited by Zulnahdwiin

I agree with most things that you said, except making the cairn even slower. Damaged subsystems, morale and the inability to dodge novas and other abilities are the major necron weaknesses right now and I think it should not be that way. Boarding is another one but that affects all factions, so I wouldn't list it as a necron-specific weakness.

@aram_thehead You're right that an isolated speed nerf would be terrible right now, I am talking about that in combination with a slight buff to turn speed and to intertialess drive jump cooldown.

I think that would fit the theme of the pondering monolithic force it should be a little more and actually allow it to disengage more reliably with the jump.

@zulnahdwiin As I said in my post I think the turn speed should be higher with a slight speed nerf, but to combine this with general speed increase would be too much, the main downside of the necrons should be their slow general speed as far as I see it for the theme of the faction.

I disagree about void shields due to lore, I think the critical save roll system I mentioned in the OP would be an elegant solution that draws from tabletop as well.

@paravox they are already way too slow though, and a decrease in teleport cooldown won’t mean anything if everything can still outrun you anyways. Besides, if you are for the theme of the faction and oppose things for lore reasons, Necrons should be faster as their theme is “quality of quantity” and lorewise they are the fastest fleet by far.

@nemesor-xanxas I agree with your points here, but I would worry in that case that the fleet becomes too elite in that sense, without a drawback, and I don't think anyone would want just one to three ships in fleets with the needed points cost for a higher speed as well.

I would also like to say, when I say speed decrease I wasn't talking vast percentages, just small. My opinion is that in terms of establishing the theme of the faction, it's much more important they are both tough and have powerful weapons as the core of their ships attributes, alongside the burst mobility of the drive jumps. You need a weakness like general speed to make up for that.

If we did just have lore-powertful Necron ships in the game, it would never be balanced or require a very gamey weakness to boarding or something along those lines.

@paravox said in Necrons: Graphically on point, Mechanically flawed.:

@nemesor-xanxas I agree with your points here, but I would worry in that case that the fleet becomes too elite in that sense, without a drawback, and I don't think anyone would want just one to three ships in fleets with the needed points cost for a higher speed as well.

I would also like to say, when I say speed decrease I wasn't talking vast percentages, just small. My opinion is that in terms of establishing the theme of the faction, it's much more important they are both tough and have powerful weapons as the core of their ships attributes, alongside the burst mobility of the drive jumps. You need a weakness like general speed to make up for that.

If we did just have lore-powertful Necron ships in the game, it would never be balanced or require a very gamey weakness to boarding or something along those lines.

But the fleet is already like that. If you want battleship fleet, you get two tithe enemies 4-6. If you want a Cruiser fleet, you get four to the enemies 6 to eight+. And so on. The Necrons were always going to be a small elite fleet, ever since TT, ever since devblog 1. If you are a small, elite fleet you need to be elite, not have gaping holes other can exploit. That’s the entire point of trading away your numbers. As it is, the Necrons are already way to slow. They don’t need a speed upgrade to be elite, they need one right now as is to just be viable. They are terrible overcosted ships individually which is why there have been so many threads complaining about them. Making inertialess drive a teleport was a huge mistake, and the root source of all these mobility problems. One way or another, Necrons need speed. They could have all the DPS in the world and it wouldn’t matter if they couldn’t catch anyone. They already have a bunch of massive gaping weaknesses, like vulnerability to crits, inability to block lightning strikes, lack of flexibility, low numbers, no Subfaction abilities, weakness to lances, no carriers, slower Regen than imperial ships, no crit or brace stance, and so on. Speed does not and should not be one of them.

They are already super weak to boarding. I’m not asking for lore accurate cairns. I am asking for a ship that currently costs half the fleet to be worth half the fleet.

@nemesor-xanxas Very fair, yeah. I think we can both agree that the necrons are just in a real need of a buff.

I'm not sure we can rely on the 46% win rate as a stat due to the need for the meta to settle to show how ill equipped we are in the hands of high skill players compared to other fleets, and I'm sure that would be below 20% if everyone was trying to use the carin.

@paravox agreed. Also to consider is that the people in low tier fleets are probably more loyal fans of the fleets, as losing a lot makes more competitive and casual players move on to different fleets, and less dedicated fans quit. Those Corsair fans for example are probably getting a higher winrate than the average player could get with them.

I think necrons.... Are pretty tough. I only did 1/4 damage to 1 cairn with 2 BCs 2 cruisers focus fired before they all got wiped out....

The guy had a 2 caern fleet with the rest Escorts. But im not gonna say they are OP yet. But i do think people are whining a lil to hard about Necrons being UP. I just dont see it. I think it comes down to necron fans being dissapointed that their faction isnt OP.

@canned_f3tus they have undeniable major weaknesses that no other faction has. They take critical hits too easily (even eldar take less of these), they can't dodge any ability (think about mass novas), they have by far the lowest troops/cost ratio. They are also slow, the jump doesn't make them faster than a faction with all ahead full if you consider the massive 90 seconds cooldown. These last 2 things combined mean that they absolutely don't stand a chance against space marines. Maybe they do against tyrandis because tyranids rely on carriers to empty the enemies, but against marines Necrons simply can't win. The only redeeming factors are the hull regeneration which actually makes them decently tanky and the dispersed lightning arc, which allows them to deal with many ships at once. They are nowhere near worth their cost. This has been said since beta 1 and nothing has changed, except the general armour buff that every faction had anyway.

last edited by Aram_theHead

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