Eldar needs serious buffing

The eldar factions are incredibly weak compared to the other factions in the game which is only compounded by MOST of the other factions getting a speed boost buff. The only benefit the eldar have are their speed and stealth both of which are useless when ever other faction can easily catch them no problem. the eldar are easily the weakest factions in a straight up fight and yet their tools that are suppossed to be their advantage mean nothing because babies during the beta complained so much about getting kited (because they dont want to spread out their fleet which i might add is suppossed to be the point of the eldar being faster than them so they can force you to spread and pick off stray ships) so what is the point in playing eldar at all or even having them in the game if your going to capitulate to cry babies who dont want to play tactically. you might as well rename the game "pick some ships and send them into a big blob fight and let the ai do the rest simulator" because their is absolutly no benefit to playing with any tactics or stratagy past picking as many space marine light cruisers as you can and spaming "honor the chapter" and lightening strike. this is the flattest most linear "stratagy" game i have ever seen im im honestly considering getting a refund because so far it has been nothing but a waste of money the first game was so much better this one is the biggest letdown ever.

@princelestat wut. The Druhkari are and always have been considered incredibly op and craftworlders can three shot a cairn with torpedo runs. And even if they were bad no one can catch them and they can spend the match invisible. There is a reason they fill so many of the top 50 slots. Did you mean corsairs and only Corsairs? They are not performing up to snuff certainly but even if the enemy spans all ahead full a stealth corsairs player should be able to run circles around them. Or even worse the enemy is Necrons and they just autolose because Necrons are terrible.

The reason people complained about it has more to do with mandatory capture mode than with Eldar. If it was just Eldar kiting, people would complain but not that Much. The issue with capping means they can win without firing a shot, so you get forced into dumb situations you cannot win. Also, chasing invisible enemies around the map is generally people’s least favorite things to do, especially with reminiscent it is of the old “chase the last webway Gate” minigame from DoW. When people bought the game, they were expecting the promised massive battles, not advanced minesweeper.

Totally agree about boarding though, Balance is terribke right now.

Dark Eldar is very good right now if you know how to properly micromanage their ships. As to the other Eldar factions, I have not played them as much so I am not expert with them. However, what little I have seen of their play tells me that if you know how to micromanage their ships you will do well with them. Honestly besides for a few point tweaks (Both increases and decreases) Eldar will be fine. If you think that Eldar is that underpowered might I ask how you are playing them? Not trying to be rude I am just trying to see if you are playing Eldar right. Eldar has a very different play style to the other factions.

@nemesor-xanxas said in Eldar needs serious buffing:

Druhkari

I play Druhkari and i can tell you that no matter how cleverly i maneuver my opponent always seems to know exactly where i am, and despite the fact that Druhkari are supposed to be the fastest faction in the game they keep up with me no problem or in alot of cases even outpace me (and im not saying they cut in front of me and catch me they can be following and straight up out pace me.) Also the Druhkari Stealth mechanics are broken because despite their maneuvers say that it will not reveal the ship it actually does and you lose stealth when you use them.

go play jaw nids instead of complaining that the strongest factions in the game need a buff
go feel despair as you sacrifice ships more expensive then those of your opponent just to do a single attack that doesnt achieve anything and then come back that the highest dps in the game that starts being effective at 13k is a bad deal
deldar can currently just sit there and facetank while melting their enemies and win without losing a single ship
if that isnt enough maybe the problem is with you

do agree that marines are all kinds of fucked up

@princelestat said in Eldar needs serious buffing:

The eldar factions are incredibly weak compared to the other factions in the game which is only compounded by MOST of the other factions getting a speed boost buff. The only benefit the eldar have are their speed and stealth both of which are useless when ever other faction can easily catch them no problem. the eldar are easily the weakest factions in a straight up fight and yet their tools that are suppossed to be their advantage mean nothing because babies during the beta complained so much about getting kited (because they dont want to spread out their fleet which i might add is suppossed to be the point of the eldar being faster than them so they can force you to spread and pick off stray ships) so what is the point in playing eldar at all or even having them in the game if your going to capitulate to cry babies who dont want to play tactically. you might as well rename the game "pick some ships and send them into a big blob fight and let the ai do the rest simulator" because their is absolutly no benefit to playing with any tactics or stratagy past

Eldar ships have the highest sustained DPS in the game.

Eldar ships have the highest burst damage in the game with torp runs doing as much as 720 damage ignoring all armor, launched from a single Cruiser.

Eldar ships are the most mobile in the game with the shortest cooldown maneuver ability and highest base movement speeds.

Craftworld Eldar are very tanky with 67 armor combine with holofields making them basically have heavy armor

Eldar are very strong =|

@princelestat said in Eldar needs serious buffing:

picking as many space marine light cruisers as you can and spaming "honor the chapter" and lightening strike. this is the flattest most linear "stratagy" game i have ever seen

This part is true. SM is pretty stupid right now.

SM LCs get countered by AP imp/chaos pretty hard. all fleets have some bad match-ups.

It is true that the DEldar special maneuvers often reveal them. However this doesn't meant that they need a buff. Personally I think that DEldar are just perfect the way they are. Need no buff and no nerf.

last edited by Aram_theHead

First, I don't think Eldar needs any kind of "buffing". I think many top players will tell you that Eldar, especially Craftworld in their current state are over-performing, myself included. CW pretty much only lose to a select number of metafleets and are oppressing for everyone else. Keep in mind that I'm talking about top levels of play here, and not the global average that tells you CW is in the 40% win rate.

  • CW: This is because 13.5km range with 270 arcs is too forgiving. I've said this a billion times before, but Eldar, by nature and playstyle, should either be doing damage or running away and surviving so they can make "attack runs" through either torping or firing fixed-fire Pulsars. Right now, you can kite almost indefinitely so you can maintain great damage and sustain virtually no damage.
  • CW: Eldar Torpedoes do an insane amount of damage with very little players can do to mitigate it unless they're running heavy fighter CAP or the torps are dumped from miles away (which by skilled players, they are not). Corsairs do not have as much of this concern they only shoot 4 torps vs. CW's 8. 8x90 is 720 damage that ignores all forms of armor and have 50% dodge on top of having 4 HP. The only mitigation against this is heavy fighter CAP; which means that it's fleet comp dependent.
  • DE: Drukhari BBs overperform, mainly due to stances adding incredible modifiers such as 40% reload or +4.5km range/Accuracy/Crit through Lock-On. Drukhari are almost virtually immune to the same threats that target CW/Corsairs which is boarding (since BBs have 21 Troop) and that blasted over-performing Disruption Bomb (no Holos for 20s for Corsairs/CW is death, but for Drukhari who cares).
  • Corsairs: That +100% Fragile is killing them; it just makes them too inconsistent and when most of the times you win/lose, you're not sure if it's because you got lucky because you didn't get Crit. When player skill is hampered by bad luck forced on by the game, it leads to an infuriating time playing the faction.

With that said, I am hoping that Tindalos changes this in the next patch:

  • Drukhari BBs damage decreased: Scythe Artillery should be reduced in damage from 16 to 12 (4 dps per weapon to 3).
  • Corsair Fragile trait removed or at least reduced to 50%.
  • All Eldar Torpedoes HP decreased from 4 to 3 (or 2).
  • Runic Targeting Node and Spirit Stone Targeting Node removed from CW; replaced with Lock-On.
  • Eldar (Corsair/CW) Pulsar damage increased from 30 to 35.

I think the removal of RTN/SSTN from CW will make the faction have to commit more to unsafe behavior if they want to deal damage while keeping 270-degree arcs on the Corsairs will give them a Hit and Run niche.

last edited by LKHERO

@LKHERO I very much agree. A few comments:

  1. Drukhari need a slight nerf to either damage or HP.
  2. CW cruisers should go down to either 4 or 6 torpedoes. It's just too much damage for a cruiser, especially one that can easily maneuver to exactly the right angle and range to hit with the full volley. Two volleys can 100-0 most faction's cruisers.
  3. Corsair need to lose or have a reduced Fragile. They're already the most vulnerable faction in the game to the effects of crits (gens down = death, engine down = death, deck out = can't 270 arc any more, vulnerable to mutiny). They don't need to also take MORE crits.
  4. Pulsar damage needs to go up a bit. They underperform compared to both macros and torpedoes, right now there is no reason to ever pick them except on an 18k Voidstalker admiral build.
  5. Basically every CW player takes the +4.5k range on Runic Targeting and stays in that stance the entire match, orbiting at 13.5k except to come in for a torpedo run. I'd like to see extra range offered only at the cost of the 270 arc, or vice versa. So CW would start with Lock On by default, but could take an upgrade to replace that stance with (9k but 270 arcs) Runic Targeting.
last edited by Jamodon

The only valid point from the first post is about speed. Eldar cannot outrun a SM or Chaos LC (or even Cruiser) fleet which correctly manage his full ahead gauge.
The only "weak" point of Eldar fleet are bays but you don t need them.

@lkhero Do CWE torpedoes do more damage than the drukhari ones? Also, if the ability to shoot in a 270 arc from 13.5k range is removed, why should I ever play CWE instead of drukhari? At the moment this seems the only advantage that CWE have over their cousins.

@aram_thehead said in Eldar needs serious buffing:

@lkhero Do CWE torpedoes do more damage than the drukhari ones? Also, if the ability to shoot in a 270 arc from 13.5k range is removed, why should I ever play CWE instead of drukhari? At the moment this seems the only advantage that CWE have over their cousins.

CWE and Drukhari uses the same Eldar torps, so the same damage. You play CW for the heavier armor and Holo-fields; which offers unmatched macro/lance resistance.

@lkhero oh, to live to be in a day and age where the eldar are far tankier than the necrons...

@nemesor-xanxas I honestly feel like CW ships are the tankiest in the game. They basically have heavy armor with holos up, take only 20% from lances, and they have smaller profiles and higher speeds than most ships letting them manually dodge macros and everything else that isnt a lance =|

They just never die, until you crit an engine and slowly ram them to death.

Tankiest faction is SM. With brace they don t bother ramming/macros/Lances, also bays have little effect thx improved turrets. Only boarding, aoe and torps which ignore armor have an impact.
CW comes just after

last edited by Beernchips

@beernchips you have 25s of 300% speed (reload does not increase the boost length) and 50s (40s with reload) is needed to fill up the gauge completly. with a 240 speed ship, you can move 18.000 units in 25 seconds. an eldar ship can boost every 35 seconds (28s with reload) for an extra distance of 4500 units. an 280 speed eldar ship can move 7000 units in 25s + 4500 for the boost. that means you can shorten the distance for 6.500 units using all of your maneuver gauge and you end up in a front facing position.

the eldar player can boost 3 seconds later to increase the distance again rapidly. if the eldar players stays at 13.500 scanning range, you only managed to close the distance to 7000 units. thats against a slow eldar ship.

a 400 speed escort moves 10.000 units + boost. against it you can only shorten the distance to it for 3.500 units with your full gauge. an eldar flagship with range upgrade can fight from 18.000 distance, it is completly safe if you try to boost to catch-up.

if you boost 1s and don't boost 2s, you move with an average speed of 400 with an 240 speed ship. a 280 speed eldar ship has an average speed of 408 including its boost. with reload for both, the speed difference gets more in favour of the eldar. boosting in the first game was viable to catch eldar, because you could have 50 seconds of boost with one skill slot.

last edited by Fosil

Your math works only if the eldar never attacks, otherwise he will have to front face the enemy and such close the distance. If targetting node, you can orbit but you lose the reload bonus to boost.
In a pure contest run, the Eldar will reach the arrival line faster I agree but in this game you have to attack sometimes.
Vs SM, he wants to reach enough distance to honor the chapter and eventually board, he don t want to use guns.
I don t take upgrades in account because if every eldar have to take flagship range upgrade + targetting node upgrade just to be safe, it is a clear argument that something is not OK

last edited by Beernchips

SM LC will catch anything in game eventually, its just a matter of getting enough engine crits while running away to keep some of the LC from ever getting close.

If you ask about "buffing Eldar" then the answer will clearly be "NO".
Eldars are the most powerful factions atm.
In case you have any doubt on this statement, I'm currently at Top 2 as Corsairs with over 90% winrate.
The dude ahead of me is also playing Corsairs.

But you are correct about one thing, there are a lot of factions/builds the Eldars just can't outrun.

Basicly any ship with 200 speed + thruster + reload will catch you in close combat befor you can deal meaningful damage at long range.
And with 240 speed + thruster it's "In Ur Face" almost immediately.
This is why Slaughter spam Chaos can hardcounter all kinds of Eldar builds.
Yes, that 10s CC skill is very powerful and I personly think it need nerf sooner or latter.
But that's not the fundamental problem, Slaughter crushes Eldar ship at maneuverability is.

Then why are they still OP?
Because they can overpower most factions by simply fight them head on, no need to H&R at all.
This is especially ture for CW Eldar which is unrivalled at mid-close range, unless the enemy brings tons of boarding.
What's the point of catching the Eldars if you can't win close combat against them?

This obviously need some changes, and I can see others coming up with many good ideas.

But it's also important to raise this question ~
If Eldars become weak at close range, maybe as they're supposed to as so called "H&R factions".
How are they able to put up a fight against those they can not outrun?
Since even with current powerlevel it‘s already a "no solution" kind of problem.

Do we need to make Eldars go even faster then?