How to improve log loading & transport

I know this game changes slowly and a lot of suggestions fall on deaf ears, but one change I would really like to see in MR, preferably the current one and not just MR2, is for hardcore mode to require manual loading of every log (no automatic packing) and the ability to pack custom loads and have the game calculate the # of points carried based on the total weight of the logs.

I don't know about the rest of you but I'd rather spend time strategizing on how to most efficiently transport the required loads, preferably in 1 trip, than to go back and forth across the map repeating the same task over and over, or transporting logs in an unpacked state to make more packed loads close to the destination and thereby kind of cheating the game, which is what I've been doing lately but I feel that's not quite right. Thoughts?

@unster I found scavenge to be annoying because I don't like hauling anything but long logs. I like the challenge. Used to manual loading was forced in the past. Maybe back in the old game though.

@roughrider Yeah I'm not a big fan of scavange either because you're essentially stuck with what the log kiosks randomly spit out, or you're forced to pick up the logs and move them out of range to get something else. I prefer what some modders have been doing with maps lately, where there are no log kiosks, just stacks of different logs on the ground and you pick what you need. That's actually kind of fun and more challenging than spawning the type of log you want.

@unster I plan to make a map like that some day. I've never gotten around to making a cool logging map. the idea Always gets put to the wayside for me. lol.

What if Mudrunner borrowed from the Forestry Simulator games where you are given a Forester and has to manually cut down tree's yourself? You can then pick if you want to cut the logs short, medium, or long?

A friend mentioned that to me and while a neat idea I fear it might be to much of a undertaking, at that point you have to go through every map and make every single tree a interactive object, And then can Mudrunner physics handle that, I have noticed them get a little wonky time to time mostly when using the Skidder or K-700.

More realistically I'd like to see the dev's do away with Scavenge and just stick to Log Kiosks. The Ridge is actually a decent little map but the fact the game forces you to just haul whatever it feels like spawning in, I don't like that. I like to haul short longs (a carriage + crane on the truck and a short trailer being hauled behind to equal a 6 point load. With the AW trucks you can even up this to a 7 point load by hauling a medium trailer)

I agree as well that in hardcore mode you should have to manually load a trailer all the way to the top before you can pack it.

Casual mode can stay as is, having the auto-load Log Station or only having to load 4 logs then you can pack it. That's fine on casual, but hardcore should be hardcore.

For Mudrunner 2 they need to work on vehicle spawns as well. I have my game 100% complete so I often just join random online lobbies and try to help people, and sometimes the vehicle spawns are terrible and leave you completely unprepared for a map. Like I joined Mount Logmore earlier, by default I had a Bison and a Blazer which is normal. And in locked vehicles I had another Bison, a Skidder, and a F-150.

So you might be thinking "well what's wrong with this?" Well (1) the map was on hardcore, so no log station. And (2) the Bison doesn't have a crane. No K-700 spawns in AW maps either only a Skidder, which can't load trucks.

So basically the game spawned me into a map and gave me no way to load any logs unless somebody else loaded me up. This is not good, I don't mind if they spawn the Freightliner as a locked vehicle then you have to drive somewhere, get it, drive it back, put a crane on it, etc. Fine. But to spawn in nothing but Bison's?

Every map should provide you the basic tools you need to complete it. Yes you can have 1 or locked vehicles that's a random spawn that could give you anything, but every AW map should be guaranteed to at least spawn in 1 Friegtliner so you at least have a crane.

While more rare, I've had this same issue occur on one of the Russian maps as well in hardcore mode. I'd join a random game, be given the usual B-131 to start with, look on the map and all I'd have is my jeep and a locked B-131. No C-255 or C-375, no K-700 (which I'm pretty certain is supposed to spawn in every Russian), I'd just have my default B-131, my default jeep, a locked B-66 and a locked B-131. So in hardcore mode where there is no log station and you need a crane or tractor, what the hell am I to do with this setup? Again I'm stranded and just have to hope somebody else is willing to load me.

So this is dare I say a game breaking issue that needs to be looked at. Every map should spawn you the basic gear you are required to complete it.

So that's a few of my thoughts.

@justinlynch3 I don't play multiplayer on this game but in single player I've never had that issue, so it could be a multiplayer issue only, if it is an issue at all. Maybe the devs wanted you to work together with other players.

About cutting trees yourself, I don't think MudRunner needs that. I'm fine with just being a truck driver and log loader and letting someone else do the cutting.

last edited by Unster

@unster said in How to improve log loading & transport:

@justinlynch3 I don't play multiplayer on this game but in single player I've never had that issue, so it could be a multiplayer issue only, if it is an issue at all. Maybe the devs wanted you to work together with other players.

About cutting trees yourself, I don't think MudRunner needs that. I'm fine with just being a truck driver and log loader and letting someone else do the cutting.

You won't run into the issue on single player because in single player you get to choose your vehicles. Most online sessions are already past the lobby and into actual game play by the time you join them, so when you join a map you just have to make do with whatever vehicles the game provides.

Onto the subject of lobbies however, on the rare times you are able to join somebodies game while they are still in the lobby. Can the "Vote To Start" tab actually matter?

Like I'm sitting in a lobby right now, a random guy is lobby leader and me + 2 other players are voting to start. However the game won't start, I assume the lobby leader is away from his console.

If you are being outvoted 3 to 1 to start the game then it shouldn't matter if the lobby leader is idle or not, the game should start. GTAO has lobbies done right where if 50% or more of players are voting to start the game, then the game starts. But in Mudrunner only the lobby leader can start the game, the 3 other players voting to start doesn't matter at all.

This should be fixed and lobbies online lobbies should be given a majority vote system like GTA has.

I'm on youtube watching stuff so I'm just waiting around just for the heck of it to see how long this lobby leader takes, I swear I've been sitting in this lobby for 15 or 20 minutes now, it's emptied out and filled back 3 or 4 times by now. But it can't start because the lobby leader is away.

This is why we need a majority vote system for lobbies.

And is this just a PS4 issue? Why do it seem like 90% of people who's hosting a lobby are idle. Why turn on the game at all if your not playing it? Do this people set up a lobby menu then go grocery shopping? The hell?

Personally, I prefer Scavenge mode.
Simply because it brings a bit more randomness into the game and I have to change my truck or just addon, in accordance what is available at the moment.
In a best case, it should be possible to choose, if you want to play the map as a "scavenge" or "regular" but because those kiosks are different models and therefore such choice needs to be done via change in map, i see it umlikely to happen.

That "no-loader" issue is something I was thinking about a lot, but it never actually happened to me. No in SP and in MP there was always somebody able to load logs. I think that game has some internal check on this and need your co-player to help you out seems to be more like a feature, rather than bug...
Basically same thing is there with scavenge mode and logs and trailers - It never happened, that I haven't a truck able to haul those logs which have just appeared...

Random lobbies are a problem on its own. I don't think that Devs will solve it, because problem is not on a side of a game, but on a side of people. If there is somebody who start the lobby but never actually launch it, what Devs could do about it? There is no dedicated server in here...
If there is lobby leader that you can't/don't want to play with, just start your own lobby, invite your own friends in there...

Well hitting upon somebody actually waiting in a lobby is a pretty rare occurrence in multiple regardless, at least on PS4. Most times you join a game you are joining a map that's already been started. So the lobby issue doesn't come up a lot, but when they do I'm just pointing out that this seems to be a trend where people just sits in lobbies forever.

And you said there is no dedicated server, so this game operates Pier To Pier (I'm gonna call PTP). Well PTP is exactly how GTA Online works as well, that game doesn't have dedicated servers. However Rockstar was able to properly program a vote to start system in their lobbies, where if 50% or more of players clicked ready then you get a 1 minute timer and the game automatically starts.

So PTP isn't the issue, so what's stopping Focus from putting in that same type of lobby system where if the players are voting to start, then the game can automatically start regardless if the lobby leader clicks start or not?

last edited by justinlynch3

@justinlynch3 We're getting off topic here. You may want to post this MP lobby issue in another thread. Regarding the availability of trucks that are able to pick up logs, I'm not sure that it is an issue even in MP. What matters I think is whether such a truck is available on the map somewhere. It may not be your vehicle in MP, but as long as it's there the game should be playable.

@Sodoma Scavange mode is OK with me too. I didn't mean that I don't enjoy playing it. It's a fine addition to the gameplay. But I think I still prefer regular log kiosks or the log piles on the ground as I mentioned earlier.

What do you guys think about the actual topic that I started this thread about, i.e. fully manual loading with no extra log spawning when packing? Would it get tedious? I'm thinking it could with something like the K-700. But with a proper crane it should be quite doable.

@justinlynch3
4 people (at max) should be capable to make a decission about starting a game on their own, programming a voting system for 4 people is a waste of time of Devs, IMHO...

@unster
Everybody has its own preferences 🙂
maps from WS in general tend to have scavenge points AND regular log kiosk somewhere a bit deeper in a forest. Only issue is, that vanilla maps are stucked as they are. But my guess is this is something, that will be improved for MR2 (because it makes sense, but nobody wants to rework old maps and system in current game)

This idea of full manual loading was mentioned several times already, in the end with basically identical "result": Some players want to load their logs in full scale, some want to drive a truck and even current manual loading is "annoying".

I see current solution as a reasonable mix of both: you have to operate with a crane (you have to have it, you have to swing it around a bit), but you don't have to spend a half of your evening with just loading a logs, those you maybe tip into a ditch in next 10 minutes.
100% realism is not fun.
With K-700 loader it might be reasonable task, to load a whole thing manually, but with a small crane on a truck, more like PITA.
Loading short logs (3pts) for twenty minutes, then deliver them and repeat 2 more times to deliver one objective seems to be unreasonable to me. Long logs are a bit clunky as they are already, idea of balancing 15 of them in there doesn't make me cheerfull 🙂
Actual technical capability of that at current game is different story.

@sodoma said in How to improve log loading & transport:

With K-700 loader it might be reasonable task, to load a whole thing manually, but with a small crane on a truck, more like PITA.

Really? I thought it would be the other way, i.e. easier to load logs with a crane than with a K-700. Anyway I see your point. Some people would not want to spend so much time loading logs. Even I might get tired of it, especially with the K-700 or some weak crane.

I do hope they at least fix the bugs with the current loading system. Those are:

  • Some logs, especially short ones, disappear when dropping a load, i.e. instead of the 4 that you used to pack the load you may get 3, requiring you to get more from a log kiosk. If the devs want to punish players for dropping a load, that's fine, but it should be made consistent with all log types.
  • Trailers don't require the minimum number of logs to pack if the main log carrier + what's in the trailer add up to the minimum, i.e. a short log carrier + short log trailer should require 8 logs to pack both, but you can pack with just 5 (4 + 1). @chaton please make sure the devs are aware of these bugs, thanks!

@unster never heard about that second one, I'll try on my own for verification and if it is so, I'll send it to them for sure

@sodoma Cool, I didn't know you had contact to the devs. I thought you were just another player who's also a moderator.

To verify the second bug, put 4 short logs in the carrier and 1 in the trailer. Be sure to pack the trailer first.

I agree having to load a full truck with a K-700 could become a issue, especially with the ground getting boggier every time you drive by. I was in mostly the mindset of using a crane, I can usually load 4 short logs in no time flat to the point where it almost seems to easy. You can have 4 trailers loaded in like a couple minutes. lol

Medium logs are a little slower loading but still not bad. Loading long logs could get cumbersome though.

Still, though, doing things like this is a good way to separate casual from hardcore.

Casual Mode - Load 4 logs then you can pack -load the truck.
Hardcore Mode - You have to manually load the truck pretty much to the top before you can pack load.

There really is nothing hardcore about Mudrunner's Hardcore mode. You need to deliver 8 garage points to unlock a garage instead of 4 points, and you have to disable diff-lock on solid ground. That's the jist of it, might be a few other things but they are so small they are barely even noticeable. It's honestly quite disappointing.

However something that could make hardcore harder. If people don't want to manually load, then how about disabling diff-lock completely in hardcore mode, forcing you to only run open diff 2WD/AWD? That'd add a whole new challenge to maps as I think a lot of trails people take when using diff-lock, you couldn't get though using open-diff. Or it'd be quite difficult to do so at least.

@unster It is far from "I'll send it and therefore they will listen and fix it immediately", I am just another player, but as a CM, I hope for a bit more attention... A tiny bit at least... 🙂

@justinlynch3 Maybe it's different on a console but on the PC garages only need 4 points to unlock even in hardcore mode. I agree that hardcore mode isn't really hardcore. What's worse, the challenges are in casual mode and they're too easy for seasoned players. After playing the first 3 I don't even bother with them.

However I certainly don't want diff lock disabled in hardcore mode. I like realistic, not artificially annoying. That's like taking away a wheel and saying, here, complete the mission with a 3-wheeled truck. 🙂

I should mention though that with a manual transmission the game allows you to use diff lock at any speed, whereas with an auto you get penalized for going too fast with it, but only with trucks where the diff lock can be toggled. This is probably another bug, though I don't mind being able to use diff lock at higher speeds. I think it's reasonable as it still increases your turning radius, so there are cases where you'll want to turn it off. That's also why in my game I made the AW semi trucks' diff lock toggle-able. With diff lock constantly on, it can be difficult to make tight turns and I'm pretty sure in real life these trucks don't have permanent diff lock.

last edited by Unster

@unster
after release there was a difference at HC difflock: it locked only rear axles.
Later that was removed, especially 8x8 trucks without front difflocks were useless...

@sodoma Did you get a chance to verify the log packing bug? It was actually mentioned in the bug forum a long time ago, but it wouldn't surprise me if the devs were unaware of it since they don't seem to look at the bug forum.