Second Update Beta

@nemesor-xanxas @Torgen I've updated by sheets with all of the beta changes, think I've covered everything, but feel free to point out anything I missed.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mNP00azWyXkg702tEj4nlut4jHLXQGuADGJBjU4xRnA/edit?usp=sharing

As you can imagine, such an endeavour necessarily involves a certain number of assumptions to be made, as such I have generated ship DPS tables to reflect the 'optimal' firing arcs of each ship, i.e. Imperials are always broadside, the majority of Tau are prow firing.

Exceptions exist where no clear optimal firing arc exists, and I have tried to accommodate these scenarios, such as Demiurg ships and Ork ships (though this often reveals the optimal firing arc).

Finally ordinance, this presents an issue, however I have tried to treat these consistently, therefore these are treated as 100% accuracy (not realistic I know), therefore many of these tables represent 'ideal' scenarios, but at least all ships are compared under similar 'ideal' conditions. However it does mean direct comparison between hangers and conventional weapons based ships shouldn't be taken on face value!

Therefore moving on to some observations I've made, it looks like Chaos ships (in a straight up brawl) win point for point, therefore for Imperials to turn the tables, torpedoes and Nova's are a necessity, especially if the chaos player takes advantage of the substantial difference in long range DPS between these races.

As previously pointed out, the Murder is a weird outlier, as in it's terrible, I've looked at this one several times trying to figure out if I'd done something wrong, but no it is just pointless, the only scenario it beats the slaughter or carnage is at 18k with it's prow lance, but this means you're wasting all of your broadsides, which are optimal at 9/13.5k.

Tau, whilst on the face of things having some absurd DPS numbers, breaking down these numbers, a large amount of this is based in ordinance, indicating that Tau have a high delta with minor sustained DPS (railguns and ion cannons pretty much tickle other ships for the cost of the ships they are on).

The changes to Mechanicus I think will make a large difference in their effectiveness, and I think this is a welcome change to differentiate them from Imperials, making them a more effective at longer range.

I hope people find these sheets useful! 🙂

about the boarding stacks: I don't think 5 second resolve time for each stack is balanced against the TTK you have with focus fire. nids and to a lesser degree SM should not take more time to hulk a cruiser as a brawler build needs to destroy a nid / SM cruiser.

in that regard, I was thinking about situations, where you would want to use "call to arms". disregarding edge cases, where you MWJ a flagship / used the necron recall / are fast enough to hide all your ships before activating it, you really want to avoid going into this mode during any serious fleet battle. you lose 90% of your damage output with reload macro boats, all your damage output with carrier / torpedo launchers, you are very vulnerable to ramming with no access to braced and the benefit of losing one troop less every 5 seconds is pretty minor.

about pulsars again: increasing their costs on top of the lack of a decent holo-shield penetration, makes them completly unattractive.

last edited by Fosil

Will there be a Beta feedback page like before or just use the general feedback thread?

Man, I could watch that Grav Cannon gif all day. That might actually be the best looking weapon effect in the game.

I think the changes to asuryani are okay with the torps, but asuryani players will now just revert to dark eldar 3 x battleship builds. 🙂 Their battleships will still have the 3x 8 torpedo rubbish.

last edited by Nin6

@coheed1988 Thanks a lot, this will help quite a bit! Will you continue to update these? Anyways, this should make strategizing quite a bit easier.

@nemesor-xanxas your welcome. I plan to keep them up to date, rather invested in them now, had them going since first closed beta 🙂

I will add Astartes and Tau Merchant next probably, then Tryanid, Aeldari factions after that (order of personal preference...).

@coheed1988 alright, after analysis I have confined now that the Cairn is indeed low on DPS for its cost compared to imperials and other cron ships. On the matter of the chart though, I think you forgot Necron escorts, and something is up with the 13.5k numbers, they are often in the hundreds of DPS.

@coheed1988 said in Second Update Beta:

@nemesor-xanxas your welcome. I plan to keep them up to date, rather invested in them now, had them going since first closed beta 🙂

I will add Astartes and Tau Merchant next probably, then Tryanid, Aeldari factions after that (order of personal preference...).

Raw dps for slaughter is 14 and repulsive at 17 I believe. Did they changes thoses two in the last patch?

@nemesor-xanxas can you give me a specific example, struggling to replicate.

And regarding escorts, I've done no escorts let alone Necrons. On the to do list though. 👍🏻

@coheed1988 See, thats the issue, because you spreadsheet says for example that the tyrant class has 270dps per points at 13.5k

last edited by Nemesor Xanxas

@nemesor-xanxas ahhh I see the misunderstanding! The DPS values are in the coloured cells, the uncoloured columns to the right are the points value divided by the DPS at the indicated ranges. Kind of a cost assessment by range.

For example, at 4.5k and 9k a retribution class is more cost effective than an apocalypse, but this reverses at 13.5 and 18k (when in lock on stance).

last edited by Coheed1988

@canardnoir said in Second Update Beta:

@coheed1988 said in Second Update Beta:

@nemesor-xanxas your welcome. I plan to keep them up to date, rather invested in them now, had them going since first closed beta 🙂

I will add Astartes and Tau Merchant next probably, then Tryanid, Aeldari factions after that (order of personal preference...).

Raw dps for slaughter is 14 and repulsive at 17 I believe. Did they changes thoses two in the last patch?

I think Repulsive must have been changed, or I'm going crazy (or I missed it ...), looking at the model it looks like they've stuck an additional 4 turrets on to each weapon system. Makes the Repulsive quite a tasty choice now as a heavy brawler,

In relation to slaughter, the tool tip doesn't include the lance damage. Watching the models in game and the damage the lances do against shield, it is consistent with a single 9K Lance turret per battery. Therefore each battery gains 1 additional Raw DPS.

It's a similar, but messier issue for the Retaliator, as the tool tip says it has 8 macros and no lances, however inspection of the model in the ship viewer (clip from the inside) and observation in game, it is actually four macros with two lances turrets (two lances each) per battery.

The Merged battery tool tips are something I raised a few times during closed beta annoyingly. It took several patches for these to be corrected in the original game as well.

@coheed1988

Thoses tooltips are very missleading it's a shame. The game is already not very intuitive nor very well explained.

This kind of details just give the impression there's la lack a seriousness.

This post is deleted!

Do you have a dead line for the release or can you take the time needed to make sure thoses very important changes are done right?

Looks like the point cost for AdMech cruisers has increased?

Thanks for the update! Looks interesting so far. Just figuring out the game right now, but am having fun. Great work devs!

Even with tyranid rush downed to 4K, the double rush is still OP. All ships can go for 8k with instant direction change, that means eldar with 9k are guaranteed boarding and even almost guaranteed ram.
Double rush also means double ram against short range and as it is almost impossible to leave contact after ram unless having a TP, it means a lot of contact damages from claws.
I still don t understand how devs thought giving this kind of power could ever be a good idea.