State Of Chaos and Beta patch

I really like the new boarding Mechanic in general in the beta patch. It prevents instant scuttles, and gives you a chance to reduce troop damage in exchange for ship functionality for as long as you wish, and can then be toggled off. Things I dont like so much are tyranid double dash, this makes them almost impossible to stay away from even with fast ships, only ships that are capable of staying away are 240 speed.

With the new boarding changes in mind I thought Id try a boarding focused Chaos. So I saw some changes to Khorne or World Eaters, and the new Bloodletter assault is now very good. 10 stacks of assault actions, thats two and half crusiers worth of boarding actions. So I thought I'd combine this with Chaos space marines, and Khorne passive for 40% total crit chance on boarding (thats one more damage every tick on a crit ) . I also decided to use two styx for fighter superiority and added dreadclaws for more boarding. This works out great, and if very fun to play. The rest of my fleet is comprised of 3 Carnage and two Idolators. This stratagy works great against most factions and is quite rewarding to play with.

However, with builds with Launch craft, it is susceptible to an instant loss to Necrons, because of starpulse. Lance or AP macro would be much better in this matchup. But then Lance and macro only would be worse against something ordiance heavy like Tau, so now your just forced into an awkward position on what ships to use, because we dont know what were facing when we lock in 1v1 Ranked.

And because we dont know what were facing, the most competitive build still remains as straight Slaughter + 3 escorts. Their speed allows them to close with Tau, and deals sufficient damage to Necrons with AP. However this strategy is very unsatisfying to win with as you are basically just running at your opponent and trying to finish the game in a DPS race. I dont need much execution to use these ships at all.

I would love to have an option where we can change around our fleet very slightly at the begining of a game, this would open a whole new world of competitive strategies. And I feel it would help Balance the game further. Rather than being at a huge disadvantage in some games because you simply brought some non so optimal ships in a match up.

Have you tried running emission dissipation and Tzeentch cloud?

Those powers with 2 Styx and 2 Carnage with 6 escorts works quite well. It's still hard to kill anything however you can control the map.

State of Choas desn't seems very good to me. Long range fleets are already in a bad spot because of lances dps. In the beta lances are a bit more effective on 67 armor (16% more) a bit less on 83 armor (16% less) and and lot more on Eldars. So overall it's a good buff. But now I think they are unplayables vs double dash nids. So overall it's a lot worse. Fielding long range ships is a big risk in the beta.

IN gets better Torp, Nids gets better everything on top off double dash.

They really should look at weak ships. A few are hot garbage and Choas overall would greatly benefit from having more competitive choices.

last edited by CanardNoir

@canardnoir I've been saying Chaos were underperforming due to their lances since launch. I've had "LTP" as the main response. 😞

@bosie lance builds underperformed, but chaos macro builds were right behind eldar in competitiveness. reload is such a huge damage bonus to macros (I finally learned that 40% fire rate increase means 2/3 extra damage 🤠 ).

@canardnoir said in State Of Chaos and Beta patch:

They really should look at weak ships. A few are hot garbage and Choas overall would greatly benefit from having more competitive choices.

Chaos has not yet entered a bunch of ships. For example, only 2 LC from 5 available. Same for battleships: 2 from 4 and even cruisers have one model missing. Battle cruisers lack of two types.

Not all of them are interesting or strong, but Oberon, Apocalypse, and Armageddon are not particularly great ships. I believe in the power of developers to add more ships.

last edited by TAKT

@fosil said in State Of Chaos and Beta patch:

@bosie lance builds underperformed, but chaos macro builds were right behind eldar in competitiveness. reload is such a huge damage bonus to macros (I finally learned that 40% fire rate increase means 2/3 extra damage 🤠 ).

That's what I'm saying. If you want to play Chaos you have to go macro, which is akin to going lances with Imp. Lances are what defines Chaos fleets, yet you gimp yourself if you take them. 😞

@takt

Fxing broken stuff is always better than make some new ones imo.

That being said I wouldn't mind more options.

@CanardNoir
I agree. Honestly, I will be glad if developers adding new ships, or optimizing the old ones. In any sequence.

@bosie said in State Of Chaos and Beta patch:

@fosil said in State Of Chaos and Beta patch:

@bosie lance builds underperformed, but chaos macro builds were right behind eldar in competitiveness. reload is such a huge damage bonus to macros (I finally learned that 40% fire rate increase means 2/3 extra damage 🤠 ).

That's what I'm saying. If you want to play Chaos you have to go macro, which is akin to going lances with Imp. Lances are what defines Chaos fleets, yet you gimp yourself if you take them. 😞

I don't think lances are useless. I play a long range fleet and it works, I'm half way to legend. Overall they are bad but it's more of a ship to ship case.

And I don't think Chaos is all about lances at all. In the lore as well as in the game they have great macro ships. Chaos is more about more overall dps / speed and less about brawl and short range burst. Howerver lances are a big part of their weapons, more than a lot of factions so bad Lances tend to impact Chaos more. Howerver people are mistaken when they think chaos should only rely en lance and engage at 18k. Half the dps of most of their ships are macro based and you should play with it to have a strong fleet.

So lances should never be in a place where Chaos ships can rely only on them to dps. (except the Executor of course 😃 )

last edited by CanardNoir

@bosie said in State Of Chaos and Beta patch:

Have you tried running emission dissipation and Tzeentch cloud?

Those powers with 2 Styx and 2 Carnage with 6 escorts works quite well. It's still hard to kill anything however you can control the map.

Yes I've tried the mobile cloud its quite nice, I dont use the launch bay builds with it tho, I usually use acherons, carnages or slaughter ships. And use the cloud to get rid of fighter assaults or move from cloud to cloud.

Acherons have very similar DPS to Desolators. But your trade HP for more rotation and high energy turn. But both need the support of Carnage to strip shields, as lances are pretty poor at this.

Pure lance fleet have no purpose anyway, any Corsair or asuryani will have 80% damage reduction vs you. I think lances are here to provide the engines (in case of kiting chaos)/deck (for mutiny) crits than you need to control the pace of the battle. 2 Acherons and the rest of the fleet built around escorts for scouting and slaughter (brawling) or carnages (range) for dps can be a good way to go.

Acheron is way better at range than a carnage, it's not even in the same league. Macro beyond 13,5k are garbage. In my opinion / experience Acheron's macro (6 dps) are enough to down shields.

On the paper it's true that macro are better vs holofield if you look "only" at the dps. In practise I'm not so sure.

  • Non-missile macros can miss a "hit roll" if the target change course or speed. And Eldar do it very often.
  • Macro won't be enough to focus and down a Eldar anyway without destroying his generator or engine first and lances will give you thoses crits a lot quicker than macros. And once this shield is down lacnes are wayyyyyyy better than macros.
  • Once the Eldar is scanned and turn back your lances will be able to hit him up to 18k, way beyond Macro capacity. (and when I play Eldar it's fukcing annoying XD, I'm out of marco range very quickly lances ofter shoot me for several more seconds)

And the cherry on top, next patch lance weapons will down Eldar armor to 25 and 42.

It's hard to tell because there a lot of differents things happening during a game but, dps chart don't say everything.

last edited by CanardNoir

@CanardNoir Oh course Acherons are better than a Carnage, But they also cost a hell of a lot more, and still have the same hull and armour value. I bring carnage to put more ships out, Only usually at most bring two Acherons. They fire their lances every 8 seconds, so if its firing on Hull more of the time the better.

Of course slaughter builds just supersede everything pound for pound if you want to talk about optimal.

A Acheron give you more dps per army point than a Carnage at 13k and beyond. The good dps at longue range keep you far from any real danger. Closer Slaughter are better. So I personnaly don’t see why you would base your fleet on carnages. I have one but it’s only to get one more escort. The Carnage is not bad but don’t do anything better than the other two. He is more of a allrounder I guess. And in bfga2 I find specialisation a lot more efficient.

last edited by CanardNoir

@canardnoir yes you are correct that Acheron are more efficient at that long range than carnage. But in practice long range units won’t be able to maintain that range without screening and that’s why I use carnage. Because they can assist at range and then screen for your more expensive Acheron. Because you don’t want to be brawling with Acherons.
You can even assist with slaughters instead of carnage and have them switch between stances on their proximity.

Can someone confirme if the merged batteries of retaliator are really at 8dps + hidden lance? I find this over the top compared to other GC or BB especially with 4 bays and for only 300pts.

@beernchips said in State Of Chaos and Beta patch:

Can someone confirme if the merged batteries of retaliator are really at 8dps + hidden lance? I find this over the top compared to other GC or BB especially with 4 bays and for only 300pts.

Retaliator are 12 dps each side : 8 macro and 4 lance.

you can count the macro and lance turrets on the broadside. lance damage for chaos is always 0.5dps per barrel and the tooltip gives you the macro stats.

@fosil said in State Of Chaos and Beta patch:

you can count the macro and lance turrets on the broadside. lance damage for chaos is always 0.5dps per barrel and the tooltip gives you the macro stats.

You can’t thrust tooltip in this game. A lot of them are just wrong. This particular one is very inaccurate.