What's the Difference between Heavy Launch Bay and Regular Launch Bay?

I thought the Heavy launch bay launched more squadrons or fighters but the Chaos Desolator seems to launch four exact same squadrons? What's the point of having a heavy launch bay then?

pretty sure its bugged right now and is supposed to be count as 2 bays each
so more bays but easier to crit

tho i have heard someone claim the bombers apply damage like they are double but im kindof doubtful of it and havnt done a lot of testing to confirm or deny

@tigerlord40k ...The first thing to get out of the way about the Despoiler is the whole Heavy Launch Bay thing and how that exactly works. Basically, this ship launches a total of 6 wings, 4 from the Heavy and 2 from the regular launch bays. In-game however, you will only see 4 squadrons being launched. That's because technically, each of the Heavy Launcher squadrons are a "2 for 1" kind of thing, where they represent two squads each, despite visually appearing as half.

This is proven through multiple tests of bombers being launched against test targets, which normally do 42.5 damage per squadron. Roughly 170 damage is dealt with a normal, full launch of a 4 Bay Carrier's bombers, while the Despoilers full deployment of bombers will do 255 damage per strike. That's a pretty significant difference. It is currently hard to tell if this translates to the squadron's hit-points as well..(ั)
https://levelskip.com/strategy/Battlefleet-Gothic-Armada-II-Chaos-Battleships-Advanced-Ship-Guide

last edited by TAKT

Are you sure about bays? If despo have 6 squadrons it is underpriced compared to emperor. Also they are supposed to have same bays (at least in the TT)

last edited by Beernchips

@takt said in What's the Difference between Heavy Launch Bay and Regular Launch Bay?:

@tigerlord40k ...The first thing to get out of the way about the Despoiler is the whole Heavy Launch Bay thing and how that exactly works. Basically, this ship launches a total of 6 wings, 4 from the Heavy and 2 from the regular launch bays. In-game however, you will only see 4 squadrons being launched. That's because technically, each of the Heavy Launcher squadrons are a "2 for 1" kind of thing, where they represent two squads each, despite visually appearing as half.

This is proven through multiple tests of bombers being launched against test targets, which normally do 42.5 damage per squadron. Roughly 170 damage is dealt with a normal, full launch of a 4 Bay Carrier's bombers, while the Despoilers full deployment of bombers will do 255 damage per strike. That's a pretty significant difference. It is currently hard to tell if this translates to the squadron's hit-points as well..(ั)
https://levelskip.com/strategy/Battlefleet-Gothic-Armada-II-Chaos-Battleships-Advanced-Ship-Guide

I hope you're not the author of this "guide" because it looks really bad. Fisrt the despoiler has 3 lance turret. And thoses " multiple tests of bombers being launched against test targets" have been made by drunk people, more likely they haven't ben done at all. Because one simple test, made by me a couple days ago show no difference in damage between a Retaliator and a Despoiler.

And some people say the Despoiler is bettre than the Emperor already.... fact is, the despoiler has 11 dps on each side, 7 on the front. The Emperor has 15 on each side. The, 4 dps is a huge difference and the prow dps of a Despoiler are not usable most of the time.

@canardnoir said in What's the Difference between Heavy Launch Bay and Regular Launch Bay?:

I hope you're not the author of this "guide" because it looks really bad.
No, I'm not the author. Moreover, I do not use chaos battleships, so I will not dispute your words. This guide is generally accurate and this is the reason why I gave it as an example.

The bays are bugged, they perform exactly as normal bays do. The Despoiler has effectively 4 bays.

Also, that guide is not great. It lists a bunch of completely obscure and useless information like salvos per minute and rounds per minute. Stats like crit rate is also displayed when they are directly tied to weapon damage (Macros crit at 1% per 4 damage, Lances at 1% per 2 damage, so listing crit rate is meaningless). It also combines all macro and lance DPS as if they are the same thing.

Lots of issues with that "advanced" guide.

last edited by CowGoMoo

@canardnoir
He didn't write it but I did. Thanks for all the compliments, I really appreciate it thank you, along with your concern for how my alcoholism is affecting my life.

For the record I spent about 30 minutes testing the Styx and Despoiler getting different results, however now after testing again for for a while as I chose to do after having it brought to attention my info might be wrong, the results are mixed, so I updated the guide to underline the current ambiguity I've witnessed and will come back to it ASAP after the next patch drops.

@cowgomoo
All the info guides present are really to help facilitate others having to do the math themselves. It's not like guide authors claim to have some super power to deduce what others cannot from information presented to them, we just go out of our way to do the leg work for others. Besides that, you'll find that the DPS per weapon and broadside are broken down for each ship in the color coded tables below their descriptions and salvos per minute might not be as useful, but RPM does give an idea as to the overall consistency of damage application over time. Weapons that fire more rounds will have more rolls to hit, thus presenting a flatter average, while weapons that pack fewer shots into more damaging rounds will see higher levels of fluctuations with less rolls to hit per minute. This is further exacerbated by smaller faster ships that can dodge fire more easily. Weapons that fire waves of bullets (light macros) are more likely to land hits because there's just more of them covering an area versus something that fires a single high damage round every few seconds, like the Astartes Bombardment Cannon. Both could have the same dps/crit (i know they don't) but one of the two will have a much better time nailing escorts regardless.

Feel free to check the upcoming list in the main index if your curious as to how this will be expanded on in the future. Also suggestions are welcome and I usually respond to corrections or issues within minutes if I'm around.

@kemptastic

About the Despoiler I don't know what you're trying to do here but it has 4 launcher for the hole patch 1 at least. I didn't check before.

The situation is not confuse at all, Despoiler is buged and as been for one patch at least. The tests I have made twice now (first time a couple days after patch one) don't give "mixed results". Despoiler squandrons damage is as consistent as it can be, and it's the same than any other 4 launcher squadron. (btw nothing changes in the current beta yet). I understand you're trying to keep face here but it's so obvious it's doing you no good. Just admit than you didn't test anything or you were mistaken.

After your answer I read the rest of this guide just to see. Maybe you did a good job with the others ships. Unfortunately, the Chaos section is very inaccurate to say the least. It seems like you just read the stats of all the ships, did some maths, and tried to guess how good/bad they are and how you should use them. You didn't take much time testing basic mechanics and you obviously don't have a lot of experience in multi with this faction if any.

Let's have a look, and let's begin with LC.

  • Hellbringer => not better than the IN one. It's far too expensive if you need just some launcher bay and has a very poor dps at long range. Macro are not suited for long range engagement so having only two of them with 18k range is very bad. I would rather have a defiant.
  • MK2 => It's not a deadly sniper. LC have really bad dps per point because they can run silent. It's underwhelming at long range and it's very costly for a LC.

You advice to use reload stance with lance weapons but they don't benefit from it since launch. (it's in the patch note) Once again there's a lack of experience / testing.

Cruiser :

  • Slaughter => Merged battery : 4 macro dps and 1 lance dps each. It's hard to tell but you can check it in battle looking at projectiles / models / dmg done etc It's a hard one to spot. This ship is not a glass canon, it's cheap and has same hp as any other C/BC so you can make fleet with a lot of hp.
  • Carnage => don't advice lock on with this one please. Lock on just give you less dps under 13k than reload and beyond macro are bad anyway.
  • Murder => It's just a bad ship nothing to say about it. If you want to talk about the murder just tell people to not play it in multi.
  • Devastation => It's not a "lance pliz" ship at all. The lance dps is awfull for the price, just don't take it for the lance. Don't take it at all I would say ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

BC :

  • Acheron and Styx => noting else too say. You're spot on for thoses two.
  • Hades => just bad don't take it.

Oh and stop saying Chaos are not suited for macro or short range. Chaos has some of the best short range macro ship in the entire game and the faction as the hole is very versatile. Hell, all the cruisers / GCs are short to mid range that's more the half the roster.

GC :

  • Excutor, you're right it's garbage don't spend points on it. (might change with the beta)
  • Repulsive : amazing close range ship ๐Ÿ˜ƒ (imo better than avenger because of torp and some lances)
  • Retaliator : 4 macro dps and 2 lance dps for each merged battery.

BS :

  • Executor : You're mostly right on this one, bad dps for the cost, to slow to stay at range. No no wide arc weaponry is not an problem for a long range ship btw.

@canardnoir said in What's the Difference between Heavy Launch Bay and Regular Launch Bay?:

@kemptastic

About the Despoiler I don't know what you're trying to do here but it has 4 launcher for the hole patch 1 at least. I didn't check before.

The situation is not confuse at all, Despoiler is buged and as been for one patch at least. The tests I have made twice now (first time a couple days after patch one) don't give "mixed results". Despoiler squandrons damage is as consistent as it can be, and it's the same than any other 4 launcher squadron. (btw nothing changes in the current beta yet). I understand you're trying to keep face here but it's so obvious it's doing you no good. Just admit than you didn't test anything or you were mistaken.

After your answer I read the rest of this guide just to see. Maybe you did a good job with the others ships. Unfortunately, the Chaos section is very inaccurate to say the least. It seems like you just read the stats of all the ships, did some maths, and tried to guess how good/bad they are and how you should use them. You didn't take much time testing basic mechanics and you obviously don't have a lot of experience in multi with this faction if any.

Let's have a look, and let's begin with LC.

  • Hellbringer => not better than the IN one. It's far too expensive if you need just some launcher bay and has a very poor dps at long range. Macro are not suited for long range engagement so having only two of them with 18k range is very bad. I would rather have a defiant.
  • MK2 => It's not a deadly sniper. LC have really bad dps per point because they can run silent. It's underwhelming at long range and it's very costly for a LC.

You advice to use reload stance with lance weapons but they don't benefit from it since launch. (it's in the patch note) Once again there's a lack of experience / testing.

Cruiser :

  • Slaughter => Merged battery : 4 macro dps and 1 lance dps each. It's hard to tell but you can check it in battle looking at projectiles / models / dmg done etc It's a hard one to spot. This ship is not a glass canon, it's cheap and has same hp as any other C/BC so you can make fleet with a lot of hp.
  • Carnage => don't advice lock on with this one please. Lock on just give you less dps under 13k than reload and beyond macro are bad anyway.
  • Murder => It's just a bad ship nothing to say about it. If you want to talk about the murder just tell people to not play it in multi.
  • Devastation => It's not a "lance pliz" ship at all. The lance dps is awfull for the price, just don't take it for the lance. Don't take it at all I would say ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

BC :

  • Acheron and Styx => noting else too say. You're spot on for thoses two.
  • Hades => just bad don't take it.

Oh and stop saying Chaos are not suited for macro or short range. Chaos has some of the best short range macro ship in the entire game and the faction as the hole is very versatile. Hell, all the cruisers / GCs are short to mid range that's more the half the roster.

GC :

  • Excutor, you're right it's garbage don't spend points on it. (might change with the beta)
  • Repulsive : amazing close range ship ๐Ÿ˜ƒ (imo better than avenger because of torp and some lances)
  • Retaliator : 4 macro dps and 2 lance dps for each merged battery.

BS :

  • Executor : You're mostly right on this one, bad dps for the cost, to slow to stay at range. No no wide arc weaponry is not an problem for a long range ship btw.

Hellbringer - Costs only 15 more points than Defiant.
Current patch, unless facing heavily armored targets with the Defiants 2 dps lance turrets, Hellbringers macros deal more damage at the lance's max range of 9k with lock on orders, and can keep hitting past 9k where Defiant caps range there.
Hellbringer has speed of 240 to Defiants 160
Same armor and hull.
Hellbringer can deal damage outside of Identification range, giving option to keep carrier away from enemy fire. Defiant cannot fire it's lances outside of identification range. It will always be able to be shot at when it's guns are live. Combined with defiant's slow engines, its either a liability that needs protection or it's a vulnerable and easily gankable target.

Helbringer MK2
6 lance dps at 18k range, pinpoint accuracy, armor piercing. Sounds like sniping to me. Literally no other LC can compete with that range.

Devastation - It literally deals the most lance based dps in it's class.... that's what I was saying, yes being cute to make things more interesting to read, but literally man, lol.

Here's the thing, you seem to be mad I didn't write this guide for you and your preferences alone since none of these are hard math based reasoning, just "I dont like this" "I think this is trash". Now I could keep arguing with you point-by-point, sending you screenshots that prove I ran tests, that I have 320+ hours in this game already because I've played nothing else the past few weeks in between working a rl job and writing guides or that I've unlocked most of the races to level 10 or whatever whatever.

The fact you continue to insist I'm lying while insulting me, like I don't know you, you don't know me, like, this isn't a job or a company I work for, so what face am I saving? If you think this matters to me in that regards I have a few dozen youtube links where people berate me on the videos for being a "morbidly obese piece of garbage" all because they can hear me breathing with the mic I used. Like really, what is your problem? Are you aware that there are other human beings out there in the world, living lives and experiencing things, even similar things, in vastly different ways than you have yourself? It's one of those beautiful little things in life, very zen, worth thinking about.

Now the lance thing is the one thing that seems genuinely helpful, and while I suspect you're right about but there is no info in patch notes (ctrl+f'd both last notes and current beta but I'm sure you'll think I lied about that too) to back that up. All I can see is a single forum post via google where someone is just guessing it doesn't. It's complicated enough analyzing screenshots and timing/setting up a test scenario to figure out so determining that from in-game tests would be very difficult without eyeballing it and as of now all the in-game tooltips seem to suggest they do.

Suffice it to say, I appreciate the time you took to actually go through the articles to provide some feedback, but the arrogance of your insistence that there's no valid point of view other than your own/possibility I experienced different results, really undercuts the usefulness of it. And if you still want to harp on the save face thing, I accidentally had the Emperor BS listed as having prow armor and torpedo tubes for a week because sometimes I get tired and mess shit up big time, that was pretty embarrassing, so there you go, why don't you drag me on that since you insist upon doing so, lol.

last edited by kemptastic

You seems a lot more mad than me ๐Ÿ˜ƒ

The simple fact than you look at full dps to evaluate a ship is funny. The mk2 does 4 lance dps total (not 6 I'm playing chaos right now it's under my nose) but it doesn't mater. With a sniper ship you don't fire with both sides 99,99999% of the time. This ship does in reality 2 lance dps. And you're right no other LC does better but the fact is, it's bad for the cost (do you realise this ship with lock on does less than 2 dps at 18K? Can we really call it "a deadly sniper"?), and you have better option as chaos to snipe anyway => useless ship, unless you want to make a meme full silent fleet.

And your guide is full of stuff like that. I'm not insulting you I just tell you, you did a bad job. Patch notes of release are on this very forum man (here it is). You can check, and see by yourself lances don't benefit from reload it's just a well known fact at this point.

Everything I told you is based on math, dps per point, hp per point etc etc. LC are just bad dps per point it's just a fact. Hellbringer cost two much if you need cheap launchers (Styx offers a lot more launcher per point) et don't do shit if you need damage (less one dps on armor 67 at 18k, for 169pts!! that's awfull.'-_-). Of course it's better than the defiant in that regard but so bad anyway thant doesn't mean anything. If you need cheap launchers the Defiant is more cost effective.

And I can back up everything with math if you really want to. I'm using a spreadsheet myself to evaluate pretty much every ship. And then I test thoses ships on ladder 1vs1.

There is some valid points, not a lot but I pointed out some of them.

last edited by CanardNoir

@canardnoir said in What's the Difference between Heavy Launch Bay and Regular Launch Bay?:

And your guide is full of stuff like that. I'm not insulting you I just tell you, you did a bad job. Patch notes of release are on this very forum man (here it is). You can check, and see by yourself lances don't benefit from reload it's just a well known fact at this point.

There is some valid points, not a lot but I pointed out some of them.

Out of the 39 pages and roughly 60,000 words the guide now consists of, I fixed the two occurrences of me mentioning the reload stance in that manner. I appreciate the help you've offered even though you did so in the worst possible way (I read your post before you edited it). Let's not also forget that the main issue I took with you is your repeated insistence to accuse me of being intentionally deceptive. I make errors all the time, own up to them and spend a lot of time going back over things I've worked on, improving and fixing them over time. What I do not do however under any circumstance, is go out of my way to deceive and mislead people for my own personal gain or any other reason.

Since you've been so kind to me, piece of personal advice, my own little guide to you. If you want to to be all "u mad bro" while criticizing someone else especially when it refers to their use of the written word, you would do yourself a favor to improve your grasp of the English language. At the very least take the time to spellcheck. It kind of softens the blow of your jabs more than you might realize.

last edited by kemptastic

Youโ€™re right Iโ€™m bad at writing english. Iโ€™m already using google trad but it takes me so much time to write I just loose patience and stop doing it. Itโ€™looks bad Iโ€™m aware. I learned english by myself Iโ€™ll get there eventually. May take some time xp

Let's imagine you play a car race game. You read a guide on internet about every cars telling that all tests have been made there's no mistake possible. You try one but it's doesn't go up to the speed told in the guide. And then the guy who wrote this guide come to tell you that he spend 3 hours testing the car (doesn't take 3 hours to check the max speed mind you) but it was not like that back then. And later you find out that it was the same max speed from the relase. What would think of him?

And then after that you go back to the guide, you check some other cars and find that there's a lot of mistakes all around. What would think of his job? Let's be honest here.

Maybe you should just covers factions you have a solid experience with. Because, frankly making a detail guide of all of the 12 factions that quickly afer release just mean you don't have a job or you're doing it without the experience needed. Especially a multiplayer one. It take a lot of hours to know everything you need to know and test all the ships / fleets.

And if a new player want some advices to go 1vs1 with chaos and see this LC is a deadly sniper he will play it only to find out that his fleet does no damage and can just run around silent.

last edited by CanardNoir

Guide good or not, in this place I would like to officially request the dev team to please look into this issue and fix the Despoiler's launch bays. I do believe even some simple fix, like making heavy launch bays just a fancy name for standard launch bays on the prow, but increasing their number to 4, would suffice.

@kemptastic

I apologize for being rude. If I might make a suggestion, separate lance and macro DPS instead of listing crits per minute. Crit is normalized in the game and all macros/ordnance crit at 1% per 4 damage and Lances at 1% per 2 damage, so its just not needed to list crit per minute if you separate lances and macros.