Weapon damage still unrealistic and unbalanced

@maa_bunny said in Weapon damage still unrealistic and unbalanced:

@sgt-kanyo said in Weapon damage still unrealistic and unbalanced:

Well if the 5.56 round had a realistic damage model, meaning 1 shot to the torso = death, then it'd be no problem.
Also I have never heard a 5.56 tear of someone's arm, while the 7.62 can do that.

Do you have any evidence for 7.62mm tearing someone's arm off? I've never heard of it happening in real life (though both 7.62mm and 5.56mm can cause enough damage to require surgical amputation of limbs, that's a different thing.)

One shot to the torso could mean death. Or it could not. There's a lot of complexities that go into influencing what happens when a body gets shot. There's no such thing as a reliable one-shot-stop. The only hard and fast rule is: when someone is trying to kill you, shoot them until they stop. How many rounds that takes is of secondary concern at most.

Also guys please stop this velocity nonsense. How would you explain the MP7's 715 m/s velocity, even though it has such short barrel.

Velocity isn't nonsense, velocity is the key wounding mechanic for small light bullets and the key mechanic for armor penetration. Velocity also makes bullets fly flatter trajectories so the shooter doesn't need to compensate for drop as much. Velocity is very important for projectiles.

How do I explain what about the MP7? It fires a light projectile with a lot of power behind it. Sandstorm isn't making up numbers, depending on the cartridge the muzzle velocity for the real-life MP7 is between 600m/s (42gr projectile) and 735m/s (31gr projectile).

There's not a ton of evidence for the effectiveness of 4.6x30mm, but there are many anecdotal accounts of it being poor. It's absolutely not as lethal at 5.56 NATO. It was designed to be more effective at penetrating body armor than 9mm, which it does quite well, but at the cost of lethality. The idea was the MP7 would make up for a lack of projectile lethality by being able to put more rounds on target quickly. Sandstorm actually models this quite well I think, individually the rounds may be weak, but with a high rate of fire and controllable gun, it's not too difficult to hit someone enough times to take them out.

Well I don't have anything to back that, since I've heard that from like 10 years ago. What I do remember, and it was pretty much burned into my eyes is how a human head will look like once it's hit with a 7.62 or a .50. I don't wish to share that with anyone, nor would I have a clue where I'd find such pictures again, but I'll not be fucking looking for it lol
Imagine something like in the movie Fury, only this was an actual picture from Afghanistan. I'm sure with a well placed 7.62 to the arm socket means your arm won't be attached to your body, since... basic physics? I mean the bone part the bullet hits shatters, the bone breaking apart like an explosion will tear the flesh apart and you're left with minced meat trying to hold onto a x Kg arm, which it will not support.

I do understand how velocity does play a key role in bullet ballistics, but it's not neccessarily velocity that kills. Take the 5.56 which has a great velocity and yet it goes through a body with ease, while the 9mm doesn't. The 9mm can do more damage by having the bullet stay inside the body even bouncing around, unlike the 5.56 which can go through meat like knife on butter. I don't quite understand why I need to explain such basic stuff.

Another bug I just discovered is that bullets seem to lose power drastically. I've been sniping with the M24 (good fuck jesus, the M24 uses 7.62x51 instead of .338 in Sandstorm...) and at 150 meters it almost always took 2 shots to kill. I knew exactly how it was a 150 meters, because my name was at the end screen with "long shot" achievement or whatever and 165 meters was mentioned there. So uh... what is this? Not even a bolt action sniper rifle can 1 shot kill anymore?

@mainfold said in Weapon damage still unrealistic and unbalanced:

@marksmanmax If you want that you can just switch to rifleman-class and use that, no limit on number of rifleman-class users there can be, so that's not even a useful argument against not removing it..

I want the SCAR-H to be buffed. The G3A3 and FAL are good guns, but I personally like the SCAR-H as well. It just underperforms at the moment.

@sgt-kanyo said in Weapon damage still unrealistic and unbalanced:

Take the 5.56 which has a great velocity and yet it goes through a body with ease, while the 9mm doesn't. The 9mm can do more damage by having the bullet stay inside the body even bouncing around, unlike the 5.56 which can go through meat like knife on butter. I don't quite understand why I need to explain such basic stuff.

Because you're wrong. 5.56mm, if it hits the body at a high enough velocity (~2,600fps - but that number is subject to a lot of debate) will partially yaw and then tear itself apart. This is what is meant by the round "fragmenting" - it basically explodes and causes massive tissue damage. Above this velocity, the round is actually very unlikely to pass through you and leave only a small hole. This is why 5.56mm tends to perform poorly at longer ranges, the projectile falls below the fragmentation velocity.

9mm may perform marginally better than a non-fragmenting 5.56mm, but it's not a rifle cartridge. As a general rule, pistols suck at lethality. Rifles are just way more powerful, cause significantly more tissue damage, and are more likely to penetrate to vital structures.

@marksmanmax They have removed weapons from the alpha and beta, so not like they couldn't remove it simply because someone likes it. Glock 17 is gone, I liked it, and now we have the PF940 in the CTE and it's arguably better, so it technically is a counter-argument to adding the Glock 17 back, but the devs have to way the pros and cons of spending time on changing a weapon or just removing it in favor of another newer weapon that makes the game feel fresher for longer.

The best thing to do with the SCAR-H would be to change it to a DMR role for the Marksman-class, because making it more long range for the Adviser-class sort of changes the use of the class to be more "all-range" as opposed to the current style of the class having to make choices that forces it into a narrower field of use by limiting yourself to a given range by your choice of weapon.