WHEN are lances going to get buffed or fixed?

I was browsing the available upgrades, and I suddenly noticed something lacking, that might be affecting how lances are used and perceived.

Macros have several upgrades that affect their DPS, like armor piercing ammo, daemonic sight, targeting coordinator. The only lance one is the increased range, which only affects Admiral and then is difficult to get much mileage out of considering how hard it is to stay at such rediculous range.

In BFG1 there was an ability called "Overload generator" which increased crit chance 300% when in lock on. Admitted I'd be hesitant to increase critical chance further as in considering the change to how critical hits are calculated now in relation to armor values.

I wonder if the way to improve lance mechanics is to provide selectable upgrades to compliment them. The only one I can think of that helps at the moment is Slannesh, but that's only indirectly.

Tindalos has something against lances anyway. No upgrade, one of the stance don't benefit lance at all. Hell Pulsar don't take avantage of any stance. XD

It's a bit on the ridiculous side.

@coheed1988 said in WHEN are lances going to get buffed or fixed?:

In BFG1 there was an ability called "Overload generator" which increased crit chance 300% when in lock on. Admitted I'd be hesitant to increase critical chance further as in considering the change to how critical hits are calculated now in relation to armor values.

I also remember an upgrade for energy weapons that buffed their damage against shields, I would like to see this instead of the measly +10% for all weapons.

@canardnoir said in WHEN are lances going to get buffed or fixed?:

Tindalos has something against lances anyway. No upgrade, one of the stance don't benefit lance at all. Hell Pulsar don't take avantage of any stance. XD

It's a bit on the ridiculous side.

This exactly, some pulsar ships are just better off with brace for impact, cause what are you gonna do? Go reload and out of all things, only get your speed boost reload shortened?

last edited by Furmano

@furmano Load ofc. The less cooldown between maneuvers, the better.

@hallbregg That is a GREAT idea. I will be sure to do JUST THAT. Cause wise people NEED TO BE HEARD.

Im not sure how the devs want to handle lances. I seen them give imperials commisar encouragment. Which gives them a major buff in speed. Maybe they could figure something out for Chaos and Eldar without it being to gimmicky. Cause id rather just go with a damage buff than a gimic stance just to make a friggen weapon system work for a faction.

We already have a lot of things to clic. 90% of people don't make the most of the skills we already have. Stop adding more.

Just make it simple. Buff rof / dmg, decrease ship cost. You don't have to rework everything to get lance to be good they are not that far behind.

last edited by CanardNoir

@canardnoir said in WHEN are lances going to get buffed or fixed?:

We already have a lot of things to clic. 90% of people don't make the most of the skills we already have. Stop adding more.

Just make it simple. Buff rof / dmg, decrease ship cost. You don't have to rework everything to get lance to be good they are not that far behind.

You are right. Less gimics better value.

@coheed1988 said in WHEN are lances going to get buffed or fixed?:

I was browsing the available upgrades, and I suddenly noticed something lacking, that might be affecting how lances are used and perceived.

Macros have several upgrades that affect their DPS, like armor piercing ammo, daemonic sight, targeting coordinator. The only lance one is the increased range, which only affects Admiral and then is difficult to get much mileage out of considering how hard it is to stay at such rediculous range.

In BFG1 there was an ability called "Overload generator" which increased crit chance 300% when in lock on. Admitted I'd be hesitant to increase critical chance further as in considering the change to how critical hits are calculated now in relation to armor values.

I wonder if the way to improve lance mechanics is to provide selectable upgrades to compliment them. The only one I can think of that helps at the moment is Slannesh, but that's only indirectly.

NO
NO NO NO

AND ONCE AGAIN BLOODY NO

Macros are already solid enough in default state, upgrades are only there as the icing on a cake. Pick what you want.
With lances, it would be pretty much an essential upgrade for Chaos, leaving only one other upgrade slot for your own choice.

I agree that criticals are not the way to go, the damage (especially armor piercing damage) needs some work.

Also, upgrades don't only affect the admiral, they affect every ship you have. Skills are admiral only.

Edit:
What I'm trying to say is: in the first game ships had up to 5 upgrades each when fully leveled up, and each had 1 or more skills depending on the tonnage.

You could freely pick an assortment of "essential" upgrades (like launch bay reloaders for carriers, disruption overcharge for lance boats, etc.) and still have one or 2 slots left to pick what you personally liked (feel like having better shields? No problemo. Prefer more combustion? There you go).

Here we have only 2 skills/upgrades to choose from. They should be optional choices that complement your own playstyle and preference, but should not be make or break. Even the meta AP ammo upgrade is nowhere near as powerful as it was in the first game. Especially early on, when it reduced armor to 25 period. Now it only reduces by 15, with average armor being also higher by about 15.

last edited by Ahriman

@ahriman said in WHEN are lances going to get buffed or fixed?:

With lances, it would be pretty much an essential upgrade for Chaos, leaving only one other upgrade slot for your own choice.

Not at all. You can make very good macro and carrier fleets. They don’t care about a lance upgrade.

@canardnoir said in WHEN are lances going to get buffed or fixed?:

@ahriman said in WHEN are lances going to get buffed or fixed?:

With lances, it would be pretty much an essential upgrade for Chaos, leaving only one other upgrade slot for your own choice.

Not at all. You can make very good macro and carrier fleets. They don’t care about a lance upgrade.

Lets put it this way that upgrade would be must for lance fleets to make them even playable. Thats why lance dmg for chaos need to be buffed period. After that we can think about upgrades making them better.

@jorpa

Ok and what’s the problem with that? Macro fleet take macro upgrade, ram fleet take ram upgrade, hit and run fleet take mobility upgrade. It’s called specialisation and it’s an rts thing for a long time now.

last edited by CanardNoir

@canardnoir You still dont get it well let me try to make another example. Lets imagine that IN macro dmg was reduced by 30% making them practically unplayable and then it was tried to fix by making an upgrade that boosted macro dmg by 30%. Would you think that yes this is how it should be. One faction absolutely NEED to take 1 upgrade to make over half of their ship options even playable not competetive not good but playable. This is not specialization as you say its trying to make broken thing to work.

@JorpA

Lances are palyable.

Zzap are very usefull.
Never saw a Tau complaining about his lances
Saw epic/legend chaos players with lance fleet including myself
IN one are bad but IN ship have bad dps efficiency even with macro
Pulsar get a nice buff I’ve been rekt by a CWE pulsar fleet in Epic
Ad Mech lances are brutal

I would say you didn’t get OP. He’s asking for upgrades because lance just need a little boost to be a little more competitive. And upgrades would perfectly do the trick.

last edited by CanardNoir

@canardnoir @jorpa @Ahriman

I can see where both sides are coming from, though thanks Ahriman for the initially over emphatic rejection of my idea. Really not the best way to encourage people to get involved in the discussion.... I'm fine if you disagree, but no need to be rude.

However I think I'm in a half-way house between you. I agree with JorPa and Ahriman in that I think Chaos Lances do need some kind of damage buff at long range. Interesting idea in another thread to give Chaos a passive for lance damage to increase at further range, however I still think, especially considering Imps new commissar ability that maintaining range is a challenging task, particularly compared to their other build of mass brawler.

But I also think that Lances would also benefit from an upgrade to allow different specialisation which macros and carrier fleets currently benefit from. Gives the build a bit more of a favour to it.

Besides all we can do on these forums is suggest ideas, it's down to the devs to decide what they think has any merit.

last edited by Coheed1988

@canardnoir said in WHEN are lances going to get buffed or fixed?:

@JorpA

Lances are palyable.

Zzap are very usefull.
Never saw a Tau complaining about his lances
Saw epic/legend chaos players with lance fleet including myself
IN one are bad but IN ship have bad dps efficiency even with macro
Pulsar get a nice buff I’ve been rekt by a CWE pulsar fleet in Epic
Ad Mech lances are brutal

I would say you didn’t get OP. He’s asking for upgrades because lance just need a little boost to be a little more competitive. And upgrades would perfectly do the trick.

I was speaking only about chaos lances.

Saw epic/legend player with lance fleets yeah well proof thanx and i wanna see that they got to epic/legendary rank by using lance fleets. Any one can get to as high rank as they can by using slaughter fest and then play few games with lance fleets.

@coheed1988 Sorry i think you accidentally mixed me with someone else as i dont think i said anything insulting but sorry ofc if i did i just didnt notice and wasnt my meaning to insult anyone.

@jorpa

I did get Epic with a fleet lance. And I’m well on my way to legend.

Most players in Epic / Legend wouldn’t play lances fleets if that would result in loosing ranks.

And if your only answer is « proof please » it’s pretty sad. In that case I will ask you for a proof that lances are not competitive then.

last edited by CanardNoir

@jorpa ah yes my bad... Will edit...sorry.

Acheron fleets are fucking brutal