Hello, I am 我求你了，就让我多睡. Here I want to explain why I think removing level system will helpful for BFGA2.

1. New player will be confused. First they can not see all faction admiral ability and fleet upgrade, so if they fight against it inside the game they can not know why enemy Imperial Navy flag ship can suddenly teleports behind and ram you, or why enemy elf suddenly have so much armor in front. This makes game harder for new player, and also restrict their playstyles because they also cannot use these.

2. New player will be bored. Warhammer is already not very mainstream games, and so there are less players. If some new player come in and they have to grind a lot of level just to play the factions at full function, they might go play other game that are similar for space ship combats, making the game have even less players.

3. For showing experience, we already have ranks. What is purpose left for levels? If someone are good and have high rank, nice. If someone is high rank but low level, then other might call them smurf. If someone is low rank but have high level, then it is just shameful for them. You are basically saying "look, he/she play this faction for so long but is still so bad." There are no positive, only negative.

4. There are no real argument for keep the level beside elitists "I had to farm when I start, so everyone new should too" or "noob need learn to play game with less ability or their little noob brain cannot take it". Later skill and upgrade are not necessarily stronger or harder to use, too.

I hope dev and community can consider these and remove level system.

Grind levels? WTF. It takes little time to get to level 10 with any faction or can even cheat it and do it solo in less than an hour. I also don't understand why new players would be confused. They can see that there are skills and abilities they can't use and in many games this is common. If a new player would be baffled by this, I would have to ask "Do they have any gaming experience". For showing experience, you say things that will happen all the time at anytime. People are salty and talk shit and will use whatever they can to trigger others.

1. What is point of leveling if people can just set AI fleet point to zero and spam 1v1 skirmishes until Lv10? Maybe you can say "use of level in games usually for show how experienced a player is". Is spam zero point games vs AI in skirmish experience?

2. I am not saying new player are confuse that there are skills not yet unlock. I say new player can not even see what a admiral skill or fleet upgrade is until they unlock. Before then, they have to guess at the detail.

3. Yes, people in game will always talk shit. But this is also remove a way for the flaming to be more personal. "You are bad" VS "You are bad, Level 50 Eldar cannot even dodge Nova? Are you a retard?" It is always better for community when there are less chink in armor for flamer to use at others.

Also, can you think any reason to keep level system? Does it do anything good for us?

@shuile0216 said in Leveling System:

1. What is point of leveling if people can just set AI fleet point to zero and spam 1v1 skirmishes until Lv10? Maybe you can say "use of level in games usually for show how experienced a player is". Is spam zero point games vs AI in skirmish experience?

2. I am not saying new player are confuse that there are skills not yet unlock. I say new player can not even see what a admiral skill or fleet upgrade is until they unlock. Before then, they have to guess at the detail.

3. Yes, people in game will always talk shit. But this is also remove a way for the flaming to be more personal. "You are bad" VS "You are bad, Level 50 Eldar cannot even dodge Nova? Are you a retard?" It is always better for community when there are less chink in armor for flamer to use at others.

Also, can you think any reason to keep level system? Does it do anything good for us?

For new players the leveling system i think is good as it forces to learn most basic skills first. I agree that the locked skills should be visible so players can check the skills before grinding 1 faction. Allso not all of us "cheat" our factions to lvl 10 and the "cheating" should remain possible for more experianced players to play on new faction. What comes to insulting players based on lvl and so on thats not a big deal. Its actually better that thous nolife bitter idiots can insult others gaming experience rather than throw thous personal insults.

1. Not all skills and upgrades that come at higher level are harder to use or understand. Tau have one that is very basic mobility buff, Ork get shield regen buff, Imperial Navy get Tarot to mark something, etc. If it is "easy skills and upgrades at low level, and the higher level ability are harder to use and you need to have more understanding of how the game works", then maybe the level system is ok. But right now it is not like that.

2. I do not understand what you are saying about the 1v1 zero-point AI in skirmish cheat. Not everyone cheat, but good players should be allow to cheat when they want try new faction. Do you mean it is good or bad? It sound like you are saying the level-farm is bad because you say "not all of us" do it, but then it sound like you support it when you say it should be keeped so good players can use it. If so, then why not just remove level so good player don't need waste time using it to unlock faction ability and upgrade?

3. Yes, insults on level is not big deal. It is smaller complaint compare to others.

The 1v1 skirmish thing is not a cheat in my mind its more like abusing the system. My point is that new players most lickely dont know about that abuse so they grind through levels and that is good thing. The grind is practice to use your fleet well. But once you have done the grind you should have quite good grasp of the game mechanics. So its not needed to grind another faction so the work around is good to have.

@jorpa Again, leveling system does not have progression. If later admiral skill and upgrade needs player to be more experience at the game to use well, then the level system would make sense. But right now it is not like that. Some of the later skills and upgrades are sometime easier to understand or use, again like Tau mobility buff, Ork shield regen buff, Imperial Navy tarot.

Instead, having skills and upgrades lock behind level just limit a new player's scope of what the game is like.

I would remove the whole lvling for skills/upg thing. The argument that new players will get confused if you give them too many options is nonsense and having to level to get to the useful skills/upg is really annoying.

Some upgrades are essential and it is kinda annoying that you have to grind to get those. Biggest offender is probably a Traktor kannon for orks because it actually gives you a chance to catch a kiting fleet, but it is only available at level 10.

Guess I'll be the voice of dissent: I love leveling. I like seeing my guys get more stuff as I level up. I went through the skirmish campaigns in the last game with absolutely everyone because I loved watching the fleet improve and evolve.

@romeo

As did I, however I don't think the leveling this time around involves the same satisfying progression.

Last time round each rank allowed me to unlock new slots. Each level my ships gained made them better, or opened up more upgrade options and combinations, wherein all of the upgrades themselves were available from the first level, but you had to be tactical about which to take on each ship.

This time around it just an arbitrary filler before you can acess various skills and upgrades, which just apply broad brush upgrades to your whole fleet without any nuance.

Its not even like there's any progression, like the higher skills and upgrades are better than early ones.

@coheed1988 said in Leveling System:

@romeo

As did I, however I don't think the leveling this time around involves the same satisfying progression.

Last time round each rank allowed me to unlock new slots. Each level my ships gained made them better, or opened up more upgrade options and combinations, wherein all of the upgrades themselves were available from the first level, but you had to be tactical about which to take on each ship.

This time around it just an arbitrary filler before you can acess various skills and upgrades, which just apply broad brush upgrades to your whole fleet without any nuance.

Its not even like there's any progression, like the higher skills and upgrades are better than early ones.

Yeah, I don't disagree with you there: Progression sucks this time around, I want more, not less.