Current camera: issues & possible solutions

Based on discussion on "community update topic", I am starting this, because i think it deserves deeper discussion which is OT on community update thread.

See the begining in here:
@sodoma said in MudRunner - Community Update 27/02/19:
@kingnightshadow said in MudRunner - Community Update 27/02/19:
@8up-local said in MudRunner - Community Update 27/02/19:
@sodoma said in MudRunner - Community Update 27/02/19:
@8up-local said in MudRunner - Community Update 27/02/19:
@unster said in MudRunner - Community Update 27/02/19:

That've been said, lets look at the thing...
Mudrunner have quite disadvantage compare to the other games, because it is so unique. Common driving title doesn't face to many issues the MR have to. Here is the picture from some random racing game I've stolen from steam.
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Area that is blocked by the car is quite tiny (because of the size of the car) but more importantly, that area is unimportant. Because you are going fast in there, anything that close to you is already not concerning. Area that you are actually looking at is further, marked in green (and maybe even that is quite rich). That is the area you want to see, because you have to "read" it, that is what your decissions are based on. Point is, faster you go, narrower your field of view is and further you need to see. Obviously, if it goes uphill, you need a bit "look-up"

MR is (surprisingly) not a racing title. Therefore things you want to see while driving are much closer, actually very often exactly at the area blocked by (rather big) vehicle. Therefore I am not sure, if 3rd person view is the best solution all the time, at least not at current state.
The area that you are interested in (for driving reasons)
1_1551733445190_C.jpg
0_1551733445190_B.jpg
Obviusly, question is, how far that arc should go, but thing is, that it starts very close to your vehicle. Very. My most common solution, when I need to go through difficult passage is that I turn camera around and look back at the vehicle, like when you are navigating somebody. That is not that bad, but because of zoom OUT restriction, I have very limited knowledge of where I am going to. Actually, that is exactly question of "how far that arc...".
That brings me back to my idea of the best solution from ST: camera on the roof.
0_1551734386439_D.jpg
Because in this game "I am the truck", I don't need to see a bit of steering wheel and some dash dials and so on, especially when my field of view is so narrow, that I can't see properly, what is happening outside. Roof camera gives me quite wide view, bit of the truck for better orientation and if I can turn camera around and look from the point of the side mirror by pressing a single button, I think that could be awesome. If a decent looking around can be implemented, in the best case, with some automatic turning by where your front wheels are aimed at or what slope you are going to, I think that could be very popular solution. Because field of view is a bit limited by a principle, I don't believe in cockpit cam too much in this (type of) game.
But that is just my opinion for a driving itself.
Another thing is, that it is still a GAME, so it suppose to be fun in a first place and not necessary real. Seeing your truck from outside wrestling with a mud is quite epic, isn't it?
In this case, current camera solution is not that bad actually (except of already mentioned flaws), and a bit of rework on restrictions might provide a good results.
For example, current mix of zooming and raising/lowering of camera caused by up/down (on D-pad) I consider as confusing.

Any opinions, guys? 🙂

Game cameras can be tricky for game developers. I actually think the devs did a pretty good job with the camera system in this game with only minor improvements desired as far as I'm concerned. I'd like more zoom options instead of just the 2 we have. And it would be nice if I didn't have to use the mouse wheel for that. Allow me to set buttons on my wheel for camera zoom in and out so I don't have to move my hand to another input device.

A roof cam could be helpful too. I wouldn't mind having it, but not in place of the driver's view. I definitely want to keep the driver's view.

And there's one other thing which is probably the worst feature of the camera system, though I understand the feature was well intended. It's when the camera suddenly switches to the distant overhead view in narrow canyons or when passing under a bridge. This usually makes the visibility worse than better. I wouldn't mind if this feature was removed.

last edited by Unster

When Mudrunner first came out you used to be able to move the camera around and get it to a 3rd person view that was right on the roof of your vehicle, that was a amazing camera angle and Focus patched it out and removed it in one of the updates, I've still not forgiven them for that. Why would they even do that, what possible excuse could they come up with for removing the rooftop camera?

I'm entirely, 100% in favor of having a rooftop view again.

My gripe with the camera is the wild swings it makes when turning, it is really bad with vehicles that pivot in the middle. I have times it swings into the woods loosing all track of the vehicle, this is when center on vehicle is checked and the camera is zoomed out a bit(can't stand up close zoom). It should stay focused on the midpoint rather than which ever way the front of the vehicle or tires are tuned..

@mudwamper The camera needs to stick to the direction of the vehicle otherwise you'd constantly have to keep moving it to see where you're going.

I honestly don't have any issues will the cockpit camera, seeing behind me is tricky but then again moving forward has rare chances of needing to look back. Having a fully detailed dash would be great visually but gameplay wise doesn't hurt or hinder gameplay. I would however like to see a roof came like you said, be added, more available camera angles is never a issue unless there are like 100 and only 2 are useful lol

What about adding extra camera under the vehicle somewhere just to see how deep you are bogged in and if there are any trees under it.Cause sometimes when Im stuck I only realise that it was a peace of tree stuck underneath only notice it when I manage to get out of it! 🙂

i like legacy camera its great, woudnt mind same exact one in mr2

can only speak for myself. i actually prefer the original camera and never use the others. i tried them out for a bit, but the original just seems best for me. only changes would be a touch more zoom out as well as a second Key2 camera so we can have a cam on all four corners of the vehicle. think of like double hitting key 1 to go looking forward to backwards, just with Key 2 for the right side of the vehicles. Key 2 trailer cam could stay the same i guess since Key3 is in cab.

right now both camera set ups have their flaws and advantages. like centered cam allows you to look straight down onto a vehicle top view, but the original cam allows you to push forward and look ahead.

@mudwamper i get what you are saying, but this game you need to keep moving the camera to see around you. logging easy roads i can see no reason for even moving the camera i guess, but most people i know never just let the camera sit there, but everyone has their own way of playing the game. 😉

For me, With StMod, (with unlimited Zoom and free can) the camera is perfect, since with freecam you can go under your truck and check for anything under your truck.

@riskywisky Yes yes yes, I've already mentioned, that unrestricted zoom solves surprisingly many issues...
That remindes me, ST+ in older days had also feature for widening FOV. It brought some deformation of the screen, but not takeing it into extrem, it helped also...
Unfortunatelly, for some reasons, this mod is not for me now...

@Sodoma
A few game i played had option in their menu or keybinding for the restriction we run into right now most are mmo or third person based game and the option are the following:
-slider in the menu to adjust camera max distance from the player position
-key binding to switch to freeview and move the camera where you want but there is still some limit set depending on the game
-key binding to cycle through different camera distance preset most of the time three or four
-key binding to shift left or right the camera from the player position or an option in the menu to set that as a preference
-option to disable camera collision so when you turn your camera for exemple near a wall in Mudrunner the camera will not glitch and just pass through texture or a part of it, this one is really rare and pretty self explanatory why

But even with all those listed above if you enter a high density forest for exemple the only remaining solution is cockpit view,since top view will probably useless due to the foliage,same situation in a narrow tunnel,otherwise for the rest we need more option to chose from and set the camera.

last edited by Raphael

it is a small thing, but i would like to also add it would be nice if the camera was symmetrical. the original camera is off set looking forward (left side), but when you switch to other (right side,key2) it is looking more towards the vehicle instead of in front of the vehicle. i understand the camera pivots around the driver, but it would be nice to keep the same focal point when switching cameras.

would be nice to lessen or tone down the camera delay when turning. it can be frustrating at times when you need to winch quick, but you keep missing the winch points because the camera keeps shifting to line up with the wheels. which in turn you click on nothing causing you to whip the camera around instead making things worse imo.

@8up-local said in Current camera: issues & possible solutions:

would be nice to lessen or tone down the camera delay when turning. it can be frustrating at times when you need to winch quick, but you keep missing the winch points because the camera keeps shifting to line up with the wheels. which in turn you click on nothing causing you to whip the camera around instead making things worse imo.

I haven't really noticed the delay you mention, or maybe it's just that it hasn't bothered me. What has bothered me at times is when selecting a winch point you have to be careful to not accidentally select something from the advanced menu. This menu should be disabled when selecting a winch point.

@unster will second that on the disable advance menu while selecting a winch point. nothing more frustrating than going to winch only for it to be under something like detach trailer or one of those menus with a stack of function buttons. add to that if you try and move the camera to be able to select that winch point, only now you can not click on the vehicle winch point from turning the camera. catch 22 and not something that is a constant problem, but it does exist.

Here's an idea. If you're displeased with the current camera, try switching to the other camera type in the setup menu (centered or non-centered). I've been on the centered camera for the vast majority of my MR hours but I've found myself almost constantly adjusting it while driving. I tried the non-centered one briefly long ago and liked it even less, so I went back to centered. Today I gave the non-centered one another try and I actually kind of like it! It probably helps that now I'm better at controlling it. So just a suggestion.

@unster @8up-local @zamal I actually liked the old camera of spintires. With MudRunner, I use the "not centered camera" which is very much like the classic camera but a little bit more restricted. The old camera system had its flaws, yes, and it was very counterintuitive but once you get used to it, its great and waaaay better than the centered camera used in most games.
With that camera, you can "slide" through the roof of the truck until you get to "kind of" roof camera so you can see right where you're asking to see. It took me several hours and even some posts on OOVEE forums complaining about the camera myself until I got to this point where I realized it was not bad, just different from all the games I played before, hence I had to "train" myself to use it. Sort of a new ability I had to develop 😃

If you ask me, I'd like the camera to return to the way it was before and maybe add a button as a modifier. for example, the camera would turn around the vehicle in a centered mode and would pan only when the modifier button is pressed. It's just an idea and maybe in practice would not be comfortable. We would have to see.

Back to the topic, I wouldn't mind having a roof camera, but as I said, I never used it on old ST because with the 3rd persona camera I could see from anywhere I'd like.

last edited by deathcoreboy1

i do not think the off center is restrictive, at least no more than the centered. centered gives you a centralized cam position and allows you look down onto you vehicle. off centered may not allow you to look down on a vehicle, but it gives better sight directly in front of the vehicle as well as be able to push the cam forward to see ahead or around the vehicle.

both have plus and minuses, so really depend on you preference. even so there will still be others who feel both cameras are not what they want. personally i have always used the off set original camera, it just works best for me.

now what i think would be a nice touch is if we could "set" our cam position. what i mean is keep the 2 outside cams, just allow us to pick a position to set the cameras at after we move it to where we might want it to really be for our personal preferences.

also i still say we could use a 4th position with the off set camera looking backwards down the right side of the vehicle, with double hitting key 2.

last edited by 8up local

Yes the non-centered camera is unusual and requires some practice to master, hence me picking the centered camera which is more typical in the game world. The centered camera could be improved if the focal point was maybe the hood of the truck rather than the center of the truck, and buttons could be assigned for zooming in & out. I really don't like having to use the mouse to zoom in and out. The non-centered camera is nice that it allows you to slide forward and back, kind of replacing the need to zoom.

so maybe keep the cameras we have now, only give the 2 outside cameras the same working features, with the ability to set and save that position for our "personal preference" setting.

i have always thought there really should be no reason to have more camera options. after all there are 10 number keys that could be used for the cameras and only 3 get used now. like when you do not have a trailer the camera will go to the right side when hitting key 2. why not make it so this retains that feature and add trailer cam to say key 3? i know this will move the incab key since it is 3, but like i said there are 7 more number keys to use and also the feature of double tapping a key to get the reverse angle, like hitting key 1 twice to look back. the possibilities for default camera positions has much potential.

edit: will agree that for most games i want the camera centered and slightly above the vehicle, but to me this is not like other games. there is no real speed, so no real reason to see far ahead while driving to me. main focus is what is just ahead of me. i have used the original camera since the start and have tried the others. no thanks i prefer the original off set camera. just works best for me and seems more natural to use. all personal preferences really, but the key is having options for those that prefer a different position.

last edited by 8up local