Concerns about the player base.

thoughts ? https://steamcharts.com/app/573100#3m

I know there will be a drop off from single player people and just people that bought and played for a few days, but I dont really see much marketing, events, or anything to sort of grow the community. I know there is a few streamers that enjoy showing off this game, and you tubers, can this community grow. For all the complaining that is done, I find most of the people here are decent compared to the greater gaming community and its a nice change in pace. Edit : Im not saying spend a lot of money on marketing, but maybe putting in a replay or even observation type configuration would be helpful from the devs.

last edited by wind459

There are and(in the near future) probably will not be spectators and replays in this game, and this kills multiplayer much faster than it should be dying off. Dawn of war 2 Retribution is still alive thanks to Elite mod and some guys who cast replays, and that game is 8 years old.

While in this game I had some amazing battles(for example, winning with 10 points advantage by ramming one of almost dead SM Cruisers with the last remaining escort to barely get the points to win before my opponent recaps too much), which I wanted to share, and certain youtubers would have gladly casted. Thus it would make more media noise and at the same time would have teached players how to play this game. But you can't even spectate in this game, meaning that you can't even do a small tournament.

Yep, there are tons of replays I wish I had to save and share, and I could of sold my friends on, doing this and removing that leveling system in MP for skills, are pretty good things to do to remove barrier from entry. I want to buy this game ( with my own cash) for two of my friends to play but Im stuck on the fence because of these numbers. I already bought it for my best friend because I know he would enjoy it because its was 40k and ships, but for the otheres, they need more than that to play, and sometimes you have to show them how the game is fun.

@zeblasky i found dow 2 to be pretty dead when i gave up on it and stopped playing it. Games took forever to create and all i did was play the same people over and over.

@wind459 strategy games are a dead genre. Also if you look at the 40k fanbase and all the strategy games that came out. They arent PVPers. I think bFGA 2 can average out at 1k tops once balance is ok with spurts of high activity when campaigns are released. But the PVP scene will always remain small.

@canned_f3tus said in Concerns about the player base.:

@wind459 strategy games are a dead genre. Also if you look at the 40k fanbase and all the strategy games that came out. They arent PVPers. I think bFGA 2 can average out at 1k tops once balance is ok with spurts of high activity when campaigns are released. But the PVP scene will always remain small.

Not sure I agree with that assessment. Strategy games have been absolutely killing it lately (Please see: XCOM2, Total Warhammer II, Battletech, Civilization, the Starcraft Remaster, Halo Wars 2 and many more that I'm forgetting just in the last couple years). Hell, the fact EA of all companies is jumping back on board strategy games should tell you something about the state of strategy games these days.

@romeo yeah there are popular IPs in RTS. But the genre is not nearly as popular as what it used to be by a large margin. Yeah EA is going for a C n C revival because those criminals want to milk the people for all that nostalgia.

Like Broodwar Re. It will be successfull. But where the frack are the fresh RTS games at? Nowhere to be seen for miles because the market is just not there for it.

@canned_f3tus said in Concerns about the player base.:

@romeo yeah there are popular IPs in RTS. But the genre is not nearly as popular as what it used to be by a large margin. Yeah EA is going for a C n C revival because those criminals want to milk the people for all that nostalgia.

Like Broodwar Re. It will be successfull. But where the frack are the fresh RTS games at? Nowhere to be seen for miles because the market is just not there for it.

There's tons of unique strategy series lately:

  • Ashes of the Singularity.
  • Battletech.
  • Offworld Trading Company.
  • They Are Billions.
  • Driftland: Magic Revival.
  • And let's not forget the original Battlefleet Gothic came out less than three years ago.

To say nothing of upcoming new strategy games like Iron Harvest, Project Pheonix and Conan Unconquered.

Again, do we have oversaturation in the RTS market? No, not currently (Though my budget is certainly being pushed to its limit). Though the market is nowhere near "dead". Hell, SEGA has been acquiring strategy developers lately, and that seems to be working splendid for them.

last edited by Romeo

I hear you. I just wish that the IPs had a bigger player base. You are right we are still getting strategy games most of them coming from companies that have established themselves nicely and got a core fanbase. But compared to other genres RTS has been just feeding on morsels.

I heard of Iron Harvest and thats where i was talking about "fresh" strategy content. Iron harvest is just a CoH knock off imo. Most Strategy developers make the mistake of borrowing to heavily off of others rather than creating their own mechanics and content.

Total War: Warhammer 2 went from 70k to 18k within 3 months.

It's had some very bad months, and is holding steady at 25k. That's a loss of around 2/3rds of the original players.

BFG2 has dropped from 9k to just under 4k. Which is around ½ the player base. TWW2 dipped below 19k within 3 months from that original 70k.

Good balance passes, and added features will keep this game alive. Replays and spectator mode are a must for this. These will allow us to run our own tournaments and stream them, giving the game exposure on Twtich/YouTube. That will show the game is alive, and encourage people in and back.

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To add, I play iRacing (10 years old) which is a hard core PvP only racing simulator. We often have between 800 and 2,000 players online at any one time. That game is still growing and going strong.

last edited by Bosie

@bosie yeah thats what i was trying to point out. Strategy games often have the highest fall off rates when it comes to player base.

@bosie the comparison is a bit flawed. bfg2 went from a peak player count of ~9.000 to ~1.400 in six weeks and it is losing further players week for week atm. it seems to lose players faster than bfg1 if I interprete steamcharts data correctly.

@fosil said in Concerns about the player base.:

@bosie the comparison is a bit flawed. bfg2 went from a peak player count of ~9.000 to ~1.400 in six weeks and it is losing further players week for week atm. it seems to lose players faster than bfg1 if I interprete steamcharts data correctly.

Yeah, there's always dropoff in absolutely any multiplayer or singleplayer game, I don't care if you've got the best balance on the planet. The only thing that keeps people coming back - as the chart above ironically shows - is content.

See those upwards blips in January, June and late October? They're when the DLCs each came out. People came back to the game to spend money because they had a reason to. Not that Blizzard ever releases data, but I bet you if we could see Starcraft 2's stats, we'd see exactly the same thing. Likewise, switching to a singleplayer experience, Fallout 4's charts also show exactly when their DLCs came out, thanks to abnormal spikes.

If Tindalos/FHI are smart, they'll get the balance to "good enough" and focus on content, rather than neglecting content and focus on polishing balance within an inch of its life.

@romeo SC 2 was booming when it first came out and didnt have a steep player drop like BFGA is experiencing. The coals were burning for a very long time but its a different crowd and we cant really compare them to the 40k gaming community because they play the game for completely different reasons.

IF you got a pretty good product people are gonna stay around and play the game especially when it comes to RTS games.

Content is important yeah but if you have a huge player drop in the first month or 2 in a RTS game its not only content related but a myriad of things and in BFGA case. I think it has more to do with Balance, lack of variety/ options and how grindy the campaign feels because from what i have hard not many have even finished the story mode.

The 40k community is a tough nut to crack because they are really damn flakey. They never seem to be satisfied with anything and usually dont stick around It also doesnt help that most 40kers are pretty damn old and got real life stuff on their plate. I might be going into stereotypes but this is the pattern i noticed with 40k games in particular. I see everyone say FOR THE EMPEROR OR THIS MAKES ME HARDER THAN TERMINATOR ARMOR and HYPE HYPE HYPE at the announcement of a promising 40k title with decent potential and only 1/4 show up to the party and half leave. It may be just an assumption but thats how i feel.

When it comes to Fallout 4. That game was a crap shoot to begin with and this is where the content problem sticks. RPGs or Single player games rely on fresh content more than other games. You finish them you run out of things to do and you stop playing. RTS games staying power is often contributed to the multiplayer there are exceptions though like Total War Warhammer which is people primarly play for the single player content and coop.

I assure you if you removed the campaigns out of SC, DOW or CnC you wont see the player base gradually falling. Because these people just want to duke it out and destroy their friends or opponents in PVP.

Where with Single Player content. When you are done with the campaign there just isnt anything more to do and you hop off the train once the replay value wears off.

last edited by CANNED_F3TUS

@canned_f3tus the relation between SP. CO-OP and MP is complicated for RTS games. for example only a small minority of people who bought star craft 2, play ranked: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=gldIgd3zjUw&t=5m52s

last edited by Fosil

BFGA2 has been release way too soon without the tools to give it a chance in the long run. No lobby for tournaments, no replays, some features didn’t had the polish needed to keep the game fun (boarding still feels lacking, ordnance need a lot of work, to many games are frustrating not because of balance but just because of poor mechanics). As the competitive player I just stopped because grinding the ladder is painful. Half the players I’ve been matched up against seems to be bronze/silver and thoses games are stomp. It take ages to go up despite winning 75% of the time.

If the game just needed balance and had polished mechanics and community tools it would be good. Rights now the game lacks a lot more than balance patch to keep multiplayer going.

That being said some game grow in the long run even after major player lose. And I’m waiting for the first multi event in april but in the meantime without tournaments, fun lobby/events, and good multi match making I don’t really have any reason to keep playing.

last edited by CanardNoir

@fosil oh yeah i do believe it. It explains why blizzard focused alot on the arcade. So more people could find something they like to do.

@canardnoir said in Concerns about the player base.:

BFGA2 has been release way too soon without the tools to give it a chance in the long run. No lobby for tournaments, no replays, some features didn’t had the polish needed to keep the game fun (boarding still feels lacking, ordnance need a lot of work, to many games are frustrating not because of balance but just because of poor mechanics). As the competitive player I just stopped because grinding the ladder is painful. Half the players I’ve been matched up against seems to be bronze/silver and thoses games are stomp. It take ages to go up despite winning 75% of the time.

If the game just needed balance and had polished mechanics and community tools it would be good. Rights now the game lacks a lot more than balance patch to keep multiplayer going.

That being said some game grow in the long run even after major player lose. And I’m waiting for the first multi event in april but in the meantime without tournaments, fun lobby/events, and good multi match making I don’t really have any reason to keep playing.

Agreed. Even now, BFG2 feels more like a Beta release than a full game. Stability isn't there, there's still unlinked XMLs and several basic features seem to be missing... They should've delayed release until they were ready.