Perhaps to fix some issues with the balancing we need limits on the same ships?

So, right now some ships are not that impressive, when deployed in numbers of 2 or 3, but when you get 4-6 of them, they become much more powerful thanks to synergy and simple spam. And such fleets are pretty boring and unfun to play against. But a solution to this problem is quite simlpe - just restrict deploying same ships by the following way:

Can't deploy more that 2 of same Battleship, 3 of the same Battlecruiser, 4 of the same Cruiser and Light Cruiser.

And I think this fixes most of the spam associated problems? After that some ships can be buffed accordingly, as they won't be spammed for the whole fleet.

last edited by Zeblasky

@zeblasky said in Perhaps to fix some issues with the balancing we need limits on the same ships?:

So, right now some ships are not that impressive, when deployed in numbers of 2 or 3, but when you get 4-6 of them, they become much more powerful thanks to synergy and simple spam. And such fleets are pretty boring and unfun to play against. But a solution to this problem is quite simlpe - just restrict deploying same ships by the following way:

Can't deploy more that 2 of same Battleship, 3 of the same Battlecruiser, 4 of the same Cruiser and Light Cruiser.

And I think this fixes most of the spam associated problems? After that some ships can be buffed accordingly, as they won't be spammed for the whole fleet.

Yeah. To be honest, I'm not overly crazy about the new "do whatever you want" system, personally. Though, perhaps instead of hardcapping choices, they could give bonuses for obeying certain limitations (No more than one Battleship, Two Battlecruisers, etc)?

Putting cap limits on ships is a pretty lazy approach to balance and it doesnt really accomplish anything. All it will do is shift the meta for a short time. But when the meta settles we will have people running with the same thing all over again and it will put certain factions with limited ship pools in a bind.

It can also have a really bad effect on build varieties. Because you are now forced to play rainbow fleets and cant really shape a fleet to suit your play style because now you have all these different ships but struggle to use them effectivly for the strategy and tactics you really want to employ vs your enemies.

Not just that but it will also make the point system a redundant feature as well. The problem is that there are huge gaps in power level between the ships for each faction. I think the spamming can be resolved with some tweaks to less desirable ships like mixed weapon platform ships that appear to not excel at anything but are supposed to give you flexibility which is downplayed by upgrades like AP ammo or just getting the hard counter that will apply the damage more reliably.

That will encourage better fleet diversity and open up more strategic choices when building a fleet. Cap restriction to me is just duct tape on a wiggly tree house. If people want to spam ships they should be able to do that. But they should also be able to get smacked real good if they run 1 trick pony and have trouble climbing the ladder because their fleet just cant handle anything but certain builds.

last edited by CANNED_F3TUS

@canned_f3tus said in Perhaps to fix some issues with the balancing we need limits on the same ships?:

Putting cap limits on ships is a pretty lazy approach to balance and it doesnt really accomplish anything. All it will do is shift the meta for a short time. But when the meta settles we will have people running with the same thing all over again and it will put certain factions with limited ship pools in a bind.

It can also have a really bad effect on build varieties. Because you are now forced to play rainbow fleets and cant really shape a fleet to suit your play style because now you have all these different ships but struggle to use them effectivly for the strategy and tactics you really want to employ vs your enemies.

Not just that but it will also make the point system a redundant feature as well. The problem is that there are huge gaps in power level between the ships for each faction. I think the spamming can be resolved with some tweaks to less desirable ships like mixed weapon platform ships that appear to not excel at anything but are supposed to give you flexibility which is downplayed by upgrades like AP ammo or just getting the hard counter that will apply the damage more reliably.

That will encourage better fleet diversity and open up more strategic choices when building a fleet. Cap restriction to me is just duct tape on a wiggly tree house. If people want to spam ships they should be able to do that. But they should also be able to get smacked real good if they run 1 trick pony and have trouble climbing the ladder because their fleet just cant handle anything but certain builds.

Coming at it from a non-multiplayer perspective, the nice thing about putting limits on it is it incentivizes you to use ships you may not have (As it did in the last game). If a particular Cruiser is the best, or the Battleship is the best, or whatever, you're just going to run a fleet of all that - and with the lack of customization now, that becomes even more boring than the last game.

Again though, I also feel like GW already provided an answer for this with their bonus upgrades for taking specific combinations of forces. If you just want to spam the hell out of one ship, so-be-it, but you might be leaving power on the table that could work a bit better.

@romeo yeah. It would work in single player but it wouldnt do multi any good.

Also there shouldnt be a best ship or unit in a strategy game. Thats where individual point cost, tweaks to some characteristics and destinct combat roles come in play.

Example lunar. Since it has less overall DPS maybe they should improve its hull strength to give it a tank role.

Murder could get a bonus to forward lances but a nurf to broad side firepower to turn it into the perfect sniper ship with lances that got better alpha than the kitey variants because lets be honest.... When do you ever activly chase something with chaos. Nobody will ever really pick a murder because its prow lances just dont mesh well with the chaos play style.

Just little changes like that to some of the ships might make em more tempting to add to the fleet.

Has tindalos made a comment already with how they are going to add more variety?

Also you mention BFGA 1. That game suffered from ability and CC bloat/spam. Instead of ship spam the game revolved heavily about what gimic ability you were gonna abuse and i am glad they threw all that in the dumpster. Im not gonna say that bfga is a moba. But it felt like the abilities were more important than the ships you controlled. Bfga 2. It has its flaws but it feels more like a navy game than the first one ever will.

last edited by CANNED_F3TUS

You don’t need limits it’s a poor/lazy way to force players to builds army. The simle truth is we don’t have a lot of ships for most of the races/factions and even when we do, like chaos, most of the ship are garbage so of course players won’t play them. Multi is about winning after all.