@planetcanada said in [Petition To Remove Damage Reflection]:
@max80 @Benny Damage reflection is a silly, unrealistic, fisher price feature that has no place in a so called “realistic” “highly lethal” shooter. Not my quotes. Theirs... One of the biggest immersion/suspense killing features in the game. Needs to go...
I'm so tired of these "immersion" arguments. I made so many posts in this forum about that...
@benny I’m happy for you I guess?? Doesn’t change the fact that friendly fire is an important aspect to immersion ffs it’s simple bud. They say the game strives for realism and being able to shoot human beings on your side is a huge part of this... Once again I have made a post about this too. Rolling into a small room tight quarters and seeing a person in the corner amd having to decide if that’s friendly or foe makes that situation intense because I don’t want to shoot and or kill my teammates. If this is not possible then who the fuck cares shoot away only going to hurt yourself. Fucking stupid no intensity, immersions gone - now I’m pissed because instead of being remorseful for shooting a teammate and genuinely feeling bad about it I’m just pissed and no longer playing the game. GTFO... Appreciate your time kisses!
@benny Agree. I stopped worrying about trolls in coop since it was implemented.
@unclefword Stopped worrying? You've gotta be running into some skrub trolls, then, because the damage reflection is so easy to exploit.
Shit, a teammate had damage reflection kicked in and accidentally shot me dead on with an AT4. I took no damage and he died. IMO, I should've gotten fucking clapped.
@benny said in [Petition To Remove Damage Reflection]:
I'm so tired of these "immersion" arguments. I made so many posts in this forum about that...
To quote Mikee:
"Insurgency is all about immersion."
Friendly fire should be handled a lot better than it is now, for coop and pvp.
My take has always been that if FF is a thing, then it should just hurt the friendly and call it a day.
This is a team shooter, so killing a teammate is in itself a negative consequence for one's own team.
If vote kicking was recorded in some way, or there was some sort of reputation system to identify those who abuse the votekick mechanic, then this becomes the additional punishment if the player is engaging in willful teamkilling or gameplay sabotage.
Otherwise, the game is basically saying "you meant to be a troll, and we will treat you as one", and the mechanic to impose this penalty on one's teammates is easily abused by actual trolls.
It's a shit mechanic, fix your game.
This system must stay unchanged for now. No need to replace it, its working fine. I assume youre trolls and griefers if you want to replace or remove it. Maybe you should ask yourself "why im having this issues? probably because im dealing a lot of damage to my teammates, i should play more accurate from now on".
Don't shoot friendlies maybe?
Remember that there is a 1 team kill grace period which is plenty imo.
Id much rather be punished for accidentally shooting a friendly in the face on occasion than allow griefers to kill me when they please.
The only time i can see it being annoying is you're the commander and your airstrikes get you killed due to reflection but idek if that's the case because i only play firefight.
Yes trolls can exploit damage reflection, but it takes more effort.
@lion-jonson said in [Petition To Remove Damage Reflection]:
This system must stay unchanged for now. No need to replace it, its working fine. I assume youre trolls and griefers if you want to replace or remove it. Maybe you should ask yourself "why im having this issues? probably because im dealing a lot of damage to my teammates, i should play more accurate from now on".
This makes me want to follow you into games and run into your fire so that you can understand why this is a stupid mechanic.
@jballou Lmao I thought almost exactly the same thing. I’m not a troll but lately I’m almost feeling like I should start playing the game again just to troll people with damage reflection...
@lion-jonson said in [Petition To Remove Damage Reflection]:
Maybe you should ask yourself "why im having this issues? probably because im dealing a lot of damage to my teammates, i should play more accurate from now on".
@turyl said in [Petition To Remove Damage Reflection]:
Don't shoot friendlies maybe?
I'm guessing neither of you have heard about "incendiary weapons" or "fire support" or "players intentionally walking into a teammate's live fire".
There's so many dumb ways for trolls to implement damage reflection, and you can't stop them at all unless you're on a community server with a votekick option.
@marksmanmax - This 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 X thumbs up.
@jballou said in [Petition To Remove Damage Reflection]:
Friendly fire should be handled a lot better than it is now, for coop and pvp.
My take has always been that if FF is a thing, then it should just hurt the friendly and call it a day.
This is a team shooter, so killing a teammate is in itself a negative consequence for one's own team.
If vote kicking was recorded in some way, or there was some sort of reputation system to identify those who abuse the votekick mechanic, then this becomes the additional punishment if the player is engaging in willful teamkilling or gameplay sabotage.
Otherwise, the game is basically saying "you meant to be a troll, and we will treat you as one", and the mechanic to impose this penalty on one's teammates is easily abused by actual trolls.
It's a shit mechanic, fix your game.
^This. Refletion damage was intended to prevent troling, however, obviously, the counter-effect being used by grivers/trolls reverses the intention and punishes legit players for playing the game (molotovs/fire support/ammo.)
while it is fairly difficult to track stats specifically on one's account, the niche' of Team Damage is a small detail in the scope of stas tracking. I honestly think if both immersion and anti-trolling is going to work in unison, stats tracking Team Damage is the only way to go.
It would not be trivial to add reputation scores, but I think Overwatch is a good example of how it can be done.
I think the value in knowing that a player is a leader and good team player, rather than just someone with a lot of play time, is valuable information for the players.
It would also make global actions like punishing those who abuse vote kicking much easier to accomplish.
The whole party and rank system needs some serious work in general, but with a few tweaks I think a lot of these problems can be addressed.
@jballou - Yes we cant have everything policed but a system that tracks behavior would be amazing. its one thing to have some tks....its another to look at someone's track record and raise an eyebrow. Do you think the two could work together? A smart vote kick system and reflected damage? It seems like a good balanced system that could work well together. Not currently in favor of one more than the other with the direction these ideas are going. By that I mean both working together or a smart vote kick system. reflective cant do it alone.
Yeah, my beef is that the game treats all team damage as intentional, when in fact a lot is not.
I can see having something like in previous SourceMod plugins that allowed a killed player to hurt or slay his team killer, but even that seems like a half-measure.
If a player is intentionally killing or hurting teammates, the team should be able to kick/ban that player.
If the player accidentally shoots someone, that harms the team enough, reflecting damage or killing additional friendly players puts the remaining team in an even worse spot.
No, I say keep it. It cuts down on intentional TKing a huge amount. Where's there's still idiots who TK for no reason other than to be obnoxious and troll the game, they realize that they can only do it once or twice before they essentially TK themselves.
It gets rid of the need to vote kick players who just screw around making the gaming experience miserable for those of us who take our gaming seriously.
I say keep it, and keep it forever.
