Looks like a pretty solid carrier platform. When ordnance get some love and get fixed im thinkin about making an Imperial Carrier fleet. Probably 2 Exorsist. 2 dictators and 2 Endurances with a widow scout ship.
How do you guys feel about GC hulls. I dont seem to see that many.
Exorcist is OK because it is the only 4 bays IN with decent manoeuvrability (Emperor have better macros but is so damn fucking slow)
Problem with Vengeance is that Overlord do almost the same (On 1 side it is 2 macros + 2 turret lances vs 2 macros + 2 lance batteries) at lower price and with torpedoes.
Problem with Avenger is low range, he gets eaten at close range vs Orks/tyranids/SM and is useless vs eldars
Mainly IN GC are lacking the torpedoes and with current meta, IN main strength is the torps
For Chaos, Executor is full lance so better take Acheron, Retaliator is a good mix of carrier + guns but Styx costs less for same bays so fit better in full carrier fleet.
Repulsive fits well in Chaos macro because Hades is trash
@canned_f3tus At the moment I would recommend the Emperor over the Exorcist, as the Emperor is the better combat vessel if you disregard the carrier capabilities. But, if the Heavy carriers become useful again, it's more or less a 50/50 depending on what you want: better hp and firepower or better battlefield flexibility (due to the better speed and mobility on the GC), usually the latter is more useful, especially since the Exorcist costs less but that's just my opinion.
Vengeance is a good alternative in PvE to the Overlord if you want something a little bit tougher with better broadsides, but it will never be as competitive in PvP since it lacks the Ramming Spur and Torps which allow the Overlord to do massive alpha strikes that the Vengeance can't match.
Avenger is cheesy in 2v2, the low price makes it very abusable in that format. The damage and hp for that price is also off the charts for the amount of value you get, but everywhere except 2v2 (and PvE, I guess); the low range, poor speed and mobility and average accuracy for a ship of that weight class makes it a very poor choice. The lack of Prow or Dorsal weapons, which hurts most GC's playablity, also really hurt the Avenger particularly harshly for those reasons.
Executor is kind of like the Chaos Avenger, but worse in almost every way. The lances just don't hit hard enough or crit often enough to put it on par with it's IN competitor. Otherwise, same applies here as to the Avenger, particularly bad in a fleet which has almost no synergy with such a play-style (with the exception of some wacky brawling builds). Never run it, play the Acheron instead if you want lances.
Retaliator suffers heavily from a lack of weapon synergy, high cost and the fact it's carrier capacity is now practically useless. It looks particularly bad in the Chaos line up, when you could take the Styx for cheaper (with better weapon synergy), or the Despoiler which has massively superior weapons for a carrier in terms of both value and weapon synergy (the additional toughness doesn't hurt either, you literally only sacrifice turn rate and emergency turns). The main issue with its Macro weapons it has is that they are short range, and most Chaos ships don't want to be in short range, so either you build your whole fleet as a close-in brawling fleet (and the Retaliator's prohibitive cost will hinder such fleets severely) or this ship is going to get isolated and destroyed in no time. Don't use it, it's the worst of the Chaos Heavy carriers.
Repulsive is probably the only Chaos GC worth considering, cos it actually corrects the problems most GCs have. It has dorsal lances, so isn't totally useless if you're chasing down a kiting enemy, and has torps which can be brutal in close quarters. It's DPS is decent for the weight class, it's got respectable range, It's decently tanky and gives you a good alternative to a heavy brawler (since the Chaos lineup lacks of BB that fills that role, and their BCs are also generally poorly suited to the role as well). Compared to the other two, it's a like a breath of fresh air. Consider maybe taking one if you're feeling experimental, but beware, it is slower than most Chaos ships and that may restrict your battle-plan in some match-ups; so it's certainly not an auto-pick.
Yeah i noticed that GC have the weakness of having no prow weapons. But i think the best way To make GC relevant is to just ramp up their broad side DPS just a titch to make em slightly better than their BC brothers but obviously worse than Battleship.
And those GC that suffer from hybrid weapons id just make them cheaper.
@canned_f3tus The IN GCs I think are ok, since they pretty much work exactly like that (they have better broadsides, but they will never defeat a BB one for one), it's just the abuse of Ram spurs and torps which makes the Overlord so much better for PvP. Like, I would certainly take an Exocist over a Mars as a carrier, unless I'm building a dedicated Nova fleet.
It's just the Chaos GCs which are messed up really. They just don't fit well with the rest of the fleet at all.
I'd only take GC if I need BB comparable firepowa with high energy turns. Can't speak for IN GC but Chaos ones indeed need a bit of finetuning.
Executors could be a good option for lance only fleet, 5 of those with some escorts can dish some crits but for some reason, they sport 2 types of lances with the shortest ranges of all chaos lances. A pair works at 9k range and the other at 13,5 if I remember correctly with no advantages for the short range ones as far as I saw (same dps, just lower range). IMO, they work better than acherons if you don't intend on kiting full time as they have the mass to do some ramming and boarding damage after a few crits have inflicted but you have to be more or less spot on with your maneuvers. A disruption bomb is imperative to get the crits on the enemy faster
For full kiting and a more flexible fleet, Acherons are the better choice. Better angles, and simillar dps along with better speed.
Retaliators are also 9k range base, and with mixed batteries. Taking 4 of them to have a decent number of bays means you are left with scouting restricted to fighters and probe. I guess they could work with AP ammo and reload but the macros only do 3 damage and great ROF according to tooltip. I guess they are meant to go in through a formation, ram, board and launching ordnance at pointblank range but dps is to low to make it work and kiting isn't an optimal solution with them.
Repulsive has some very heavy hitting macros with decent range of 13,5 base. They can kite a bit then go in hard for a finishing shot with torps and all. This is where the high energy turns shine for Chaos GCs.
BB-wise, I find it strange that the Despoiler has broadside macros and Desolator has lance weaponry. While both work at 18k, I feel they both would do better if they had the broadsides switched around.
Unfortunatly these chaos GC need to be spammed to achieve any kind of results and i just dont see it goin well for chaos. Id say 2 GC max and that maybe try and plug some holes in their weaknesses.
