Why does the necron carrier lack bombers or assualt boats?

They have them in cannon, but the carrier lacks them for no apparent reason. This makes it a more expensive less useful version of the reaper battlecruiser. As all other line ships can launch fighters, its not like its particularly useful either, and lacks starpulse like the harrower, but that ship at least is much cheaper and does decent dps for its cost, even if the lack is strange. The grand cruiser is kind of like the ruiner BC in that it trades away something good (lances/starpulse for the GC, 4 arc batteries for the BC) and gets something useless and a price increase in change (the GC got hangars that lack the only craft that matter, and the BC traded 4 batteries for 2 useless lances). I really don't get this decision. I though it was a bug (as it still has the imperial tooltip copypasted onto it which includes bombers and assualt boats in the description, sort of like how it still says necrons do emergency warp jumps) but the hotfix didn't fix it. Any idea why this is?

last edited by Nemesor Xanxas

Perhaps because, I don't know? Maybe because Necrons DO NOT have carriers in canon in the first place?

And the only reason they have them here and now is to give them some semblance of protection against other ordnance, not to give them offensive ordnance of their own?

my guess would be that the devs overrate carriers (would explain the ordnance launch nerf we got too).

trying to avoid making the BC too strong, it gets only 3 charges of fighters that have no burst damage. if you believe that you need defensive fighters to deal with bombers, the extra fighter wing of all necron line ships get and the access to star pulse could clear the board for their bombers effectively.

in my experience, braced turrets and AAF are more than enough to deal with bombers. so even with bombers, it would be a scetchy pick.

@ahriman they have assault boats and bombers in cannon though, so why not just put them in the carrier they just made? Its rather pointless as it is, any normal ship with starpulse is alot better at clearing ordnance than a fighter only carrier is and much less expensive too.

@Fosil that's the problem with it, starpulse and fighter wings coming standard with everything else makes it useless. If you desperately needed AA the new light cruiser would be better as its a cheap starpulse platform. There is no reason to take the ship as it is besides that it looks nice.

I think balance is a pretty good reason (their fighters like the orks do a dual role so there is that). if you combine all that with star pulse Necrons would be a bit to powerful i think.

I think its simply they didn't make necron bomber and assault craft texture or whatever

But i don't understand why just use doom scythe(fighter) texture as night scythe(assault craft) one.

Maybe bomber and assault craft with starpulse is too strong? 'bombs away and removing enemy fighter just push one butten' combo is seems quite OP.

last edited by wastesoftime

@sn1percat @wastesoftime the carrier does not come with starpulse, and costs over 400 points. You can at max have one cruiser with starpulse in a fleet with two of them, which would be how a carrier fleet would be played. It kind of defeats the point of a carrier if it can't do carrier things. I'm no expert on balance, so maybe you are right about balance, and the modeling things sounds likely, but there is no reason not to give them assault boats.

@nemesor-xanxas you can have 11-12 fighter squads, if you go for this build. that's really bad for a carrier build, because you cannot overwhelm turrets which this amount of fighters. you don't have much fleet hp, mobility or weapons damage either. it is just not working balance-wise.

edit: as comparison - the current necron meta build (sekhem spam) has 8 fighter squads with two charges (it is debatable if you want to trade less sekhem for more recalls, which means taking a CR flagship).

last edited by Fosil

Stop cry about necrons please they already one of the best faction now

@nemesor-xanxas I am aware that it does not but if you are doing a 2v2 yes you can only get 1-star plus lc but in 1v1 I am can get 2 of the carriers, 2 lc with star pulse for support and 2 escorts. That's pretty good.

@nemesor-xanxas
Reportedly, in canon Necrons only ever use their ordnance during planetary assaults.

And yep, we can all agree, you are not expert on balance. Not at all.

@nemesor-xanxas said in Why does the necron carrier lack bombers or assualt boats?:

It kind of defeats the point of a carrier if it can't do carrier things. I'm no expert on balance, so maybe you are right about balance, and the modeling things sounds likely, but there is no reason not to give them assault boats.

Please leave and go back once you can see Eldar players complaining about lack of assault boats.

last edited by Ahriman

@beernchips I'll stop complaining about them when they stop having several useless ships.

@Sn1percat you shouldn't have to rely on a second fleet to compensate for a ships flaws

@ahriman They explicitly don't. In every single codex it has specified that doom scythes, night scythes, and even tomb blades are void fighters and use different weapons for ground attack roles. In fact, the tomb blade was originally designed as a void craft to be used in swarms in order to overwhelm enemy AA. The only exception is the night shroud bomber, as it is not in codexes, but a forge world exclusive model.

The eldar have bombers though. Their carriers are just extremely inefficient fighter platforms. They also have alternate ordnance such as torpedoes, whereas with necrons do not. They also don't have them in cannon and lack them in here for no reason. So, if that ever becomes true of the eldar, than maybe that comment would have a point.

@nemesor-xanxas wwwwwwhhhhaaatttt "you should not rely on second fleet to compensate for ship flaws" ummmm are you serious that's literally the point of making a well-designed fleet I don't pick nothing but battleships as most people know how to kite them I would not then say they need to buff speed on all of them. NO ship is perfect and everyone has a weakness you either use a play style to counter this or avoid it or you supplement you're fleet so that supporting craft remove or reduce the weakness.
It would be a pretty boring game if every ship could fulfil every role, the Necron carrier has good boarding, whilst slow like the battleship its jump gives great burst manoeuvring, for a carrier the weapons are decent and its got great armour and hp and with skills like scarab or lighting link (which I am starting to love when paired with a lc) you can easily compensate for subpar dps compared to dedicated line ships). people also seem to underate the dps of the fighters granted 1 damage every 3 seconds does not sound like much but i have killed dark Eldar battleships with just the fighters plenty of times and its hilarious to see them limping away getting torn apart by little fighters (fyi each squad has more fighters than ork squads).

@ahriman nobody playing to win, uses eldar hangars. the torpedos are so much better. it is similar how nobody should take necron hangars instead of massing star pulses. btw I don''t know why you think dissing nemesor is appropriate.

I'm not sure if you've noticed but necron fighter are in fact FIGHTER-BOMBERS. And they deal good DOT to ships. 10 fighter squadrons will bring down a battleship to half HP in one launch, over 60-90 seconds or whatever is the time that they go back. I've done this several times and unlike bombers, necron fighter-bombers can take out both fighters and ships. Instead of bothering "I wonder how much fighter escort is good enough" you just launch them all at once.
A 2x GC and 2x sekhem LC fleet can field 12 squadrons at once. Only the tau and perhaps tyranids can oppose against that, all the other factions usually don't field as many fighters. Scythes will overpower the enemy airfleet and proceed to decimate both the turrets of targeted ship and it's HP in a long but effective process.

The only problem for such a fleet are orks and tyranids, as they are very difficult to counter. But tbh I honestly consider these to always be a harsh matchup against slower fleets that won't benefit from close contact with them like necrons or admech. These fleets come with great numbers and especially great HP points spread among the fleet, they have great means to control large portion of the map while also dishing out respectable damage at long range (either tyranid ordnance spam or ork pew pew lasers) all the while being way deadlier at close range. Not to mention how foolproof the idea of playing these fleets is. But balance of these factions is a whole different story.

The necron are fairly easy to play, perhaps not as easy as some other factions but I would hardly say that they are weak or that some of their ships are useless.

last edited by Furmano

Necrons have some useless ships but so do all other factions.
Necrons have good match ups except vs mass boarding (nids/SM, Orks unles you can moral bomb them with cairns) and vs mass ramming (can include torpedoes because Necron player have to be reactive).
All eldars/Chaos/Tau (unless playing mass kroot build) are free kill for a necron so Necron don t need anymore buffs or better ships, in fact they should have some nerfs to allow some factions to even be able to fight them (9k TP vs Eldar 9k range such a nice idea).
Oh and Necron have easy AOE spam they don t even need to bother with bombers or assault boats

last edited by Beernchips

@beernchips eldar torp builds can nuke crons, the minimum torp arming distance is close enough, that you always hit before the star pulse can activate. tau meta is demiurg cruisers, which ignore morale damage and have the laser and torps to kill cron ships extremly fast. orks can survive a necron alpha strike on the flag ship if you activate the 30 seconds of morale damage immunity at the correct time. if you don't alpha strike them, you have no chance against all the boarding damage. I agree that chaos is a good match-up for crons, but I think chaos is in a bad spot balance-wise overall.

the exception build are mass sekhem, which are pretty strong, but I think nobody thinks that star pulse stealth drops are pretty engaging or well balanced gameplay.

@sn1percat having been the comment I responded to, you should know the context of your own comment. This isn't about needing a balanced fleet, its about needing an entire SECOND fleet to make the ship passable, ie something you cannot do in single player. If the ship was bad, but able to be used if you just built a fleet around it, there wouldn't be an issue. That isn't how it is though. Its just a vastly more expensive version of the battlecruiser, with the much more useful lances switched out for some fighters. The entire point of the thread is that it functions like one too, not an actual carrier, because it has no bombers/assault boats. If I wanted the battlecruiser I would take it.

@Fumano0They have quite a few useless ships. For example, the newest battlecruiser is like the last one, but with two less guns, two of the remaining having been replaced by the not exactly great lances, and is also more expensive for no reason. But this thread isn't about what is good or isn't its about what I say below

@Beernchips ignoring the matchup debate as fosil has addressed that, this isn't about whats good or not, its about a ship missing something the ship should have going by cannon have. Its like if dominators didn't have nova cannons, or retributions had no torpedoes. I would have made this exact thread had the imperials had their nemesis class fleet carrier added and it lacked bombers and assault boats just like this one while the tool tip said it had them. I don't honestly care if the bombers and night scythes self destruct when launched or just fly off the map, they should have them. It also means they cannot actually preform as a carrier, as they can't do two of the three points of a carrier (long ranged boarding and burst damage) and every other necron ship can provide fighter cover while also having the starpulse, which this ship doesn't. As it is the ship is a battlecruiser that traded its starpulse and lances for three extra fighter squadrons, not something with a battlefield role that resembles a carrier. Not that that matters as battlecruisers are rather overcosted and the meta is LC spam.

last edited by Nemesor Xanxas

@nemesor-xanxas the ships I said to take to make up for its shortcomings is something that you can do in a 1v1, to make up for the weakness of the GC as I said you don't need A SECOND FLEET 2 lcs with star pulse will sort the pulse issue and add some dps so yea if you build around it the ship works fine 2 gcs, 2lc and a few escorts on 1v1 works and thus should work fine in campaign.

yes, you will never have the dps of double cairns but its still decent compared with other carriers, in fact, i would say its got better dps than most, as I said augment this with scarbs or link and it works well as the dps output from them can be nuts.

having 5 launch bays on each GC is pretty strong as with the 2 lcs which is the build i have used with it on 1v1s (so should work fine in campaign as well) you have 12 fighter launches and when you factor that each squad has an additional fighter (at least compared with the orks and Imperials who have 6 per bay compared which i think is for most races but Necrons have more with their 7 (this 1 increase stacks over a carrier fleet) its pretty strong lets do some quick maths each squad has 7 fighters x 12 squads= 84 which is more than enough to compete against other factions and nuke point defence especially when u take into account their speed. you say no bombers as you know these work like ork fighter bombers and whilst that does not have the alpha of a bomber squad in my experience it does more damage and is harder to deal with as they are harder to shoot down and you can't counter it with 1 fighter which u can with most bombers, more quick maths 84 fighters doing 1 damage every 3 seconds = 28 dps which is pretty dam strong as i said i have ripped eldar and chaos battleships apart with 1 pass and it cant be easily dealt with unless its a Necron with star pulse. So yea sorry but you are not getting bombers and fighter bombers and as for assault craft well you already have great damage and airpower from the fighters and good use of star pulse means you can win any carrier fight if you are smart coupled with decent firepower and tanky ships with a powerful teleport and boarding ability (as long as its not a dedicate boarder you are up against) and in my opinion some of the strongest skills in the game I am not sure what the issue is.

I love playing Necrons but they feel to me as one of the strongest races atm so not sure why there are constant posts by you complaining over them being weak when they really are not. Not to be insulting but its starting to come across like the space marine players who get upset when they can't just instantly kill everyone in 2 seconds due to them being able to do that in a book or codex section we all have a favorite race but it does not mean it needs to be buffed to the point where no one can fight them.

@sn1percat I feel like you didn't bother to read my full post. This isn't about making necrons good or bad. This is about the fact the necrons have assault boats and bombers, they use them in the void, and for whatever reason the only carrier they have doesn't have them. This is about the fact the carrier does not in fact act as a carrier. You could give all the strikecraft a dps of 0 for all I care, but not having something the ship should have according to lore is incredibly aggravating.

I used to complain about them being weak, because they used to be terrible. After launch you could have chaos BB stacks melt entire necron fleets before they entered detection range and so on. Then armor changed, nids/boarding got nerfed, and so on and the fleet stopped being terrible. I coincidentally stopped talking about them for a while when that happened. My main complaint with them pre-addon of the new ships is that I really didn't like the way ID worked and the gaping holes and the necrons mechanics make them monobuild, which isn't a very engaging playstyle. Then the new ships hit, and I had a lot to complain about. One ship was full on useless (the BC), and another was in a weird spot because no starpulse (the new cruiser), but the last two were of particular concern. The starpulse light cruiser was a terrible idea, they removed starpulse spam for a reason and its rather overpowered. The carrier, the thing I had been asking for since day one, received most of my ire because it wasn't a carrier, it was as Ive repeatedly said a battlecruiser with more fighters. You don't use the ship like you would a carrier, its a tanky slow vessel with a lot of gun. The entire point of adding a carrier was to add a new way to play the faction, but they still play exactly the same. And thats why I made a thread about the carrier and only the carrier. I didn't make a thread about the terrible new BC. I didn't make one asking why the cruiser lacks starpulse. And I didn't make one about all the other issues the necrons have, up to and including the fact they don't actually play like lore necrons. I made a thread because the ship doesn't actually function as a carrier (ie something that adds in long range boarding and burst damage which allows you to do carrier things) and adds nothing from a gameplay perspective. I said before it started the game I didn't care if the necrons were bad as long as they got them right thematically. They didn't, but it was passable so I focused on all the holes in their mechanics. This is one such hole. I wouldn't care if the ship had 73HP and the damage as a frigate if it had bombers and assault boats, because again thats the entire point of a carrier. Balance is a separate issue.