Massive Fleet Update & Season 2!

@ezycompany101 Yes, there were many changes, but there were no changes that changed the balance of power between these 2 factions, where one faction has become stronger and the other has become weaker.
The boarding changed, but it was changed in both of these factions, and the power of the boarding remained the same (average). In the last patch, the weapons were increased by 25%, but they were strengthened again in both factions. There was no change where it was possible to say unequivocally. "The empire strengthened and Chaos became weak, because they changed this..." (Weakened the ram, but I do not even consider it). The fundamental characteristics remained the same as the speed, armor, health and composition of the ships' armament.

last edited by yaBATMAN

I look forward to jumping back in, I hope you'll allow massive fleets int he grand campaign as an extra "sweetener".

I'm not sure 4000 is all that big, but i'll reserve judgement til tonight.

Thank you for your efforts and implementing this feature from the last game's suggestions.

Additionally, I'd quite like to be able to sue the old UI style sometimes, the new one feels a little generic, and miss the green.

I won t list everything but IN got commissar skill and macros damage buff while Chaos not so saying nothing changed the balance between those 2 factions is false

last edited by Beernchips

@yabatman Those are Old statistics and again you choose to ignore the hidden factors that play a huge part in these statistics. I wouldnt consider the nature of imps win rate as a accurate portrayal of how they fair in the Meta. Played by Pros Imperial Navy can dunk or compete with alot of these faction fairly well.

You have to consider that Imps are being played by alot of casual players because Imps and space marines are the most popular faction in the game. This leads to a rating that might not look favorable for them. Where there are less players playing eldar. But if you have just a pool of really good eldar, orks and necron players their Win Loss ratio spikes harder and more favorably than those of the more popular races like those found at the bottom of the list.

@canned_f3tus I used the latest stats provided by the developers. If provide a new one will be fine.

As for professionalism, so professional players for Chaos will also be able to win). It is necessary to compare with the same skill.

As for popularity, Chaos is no less popular than the Empire, although it is subjective and a matter of taste.
But it is not correct to say that if the faction is not popular, then more skilled players play for it. The more players, the smaller the statistical error. For example, a coin falling out 50%, if you flip a coin 100 times, a ratio of 46/54% may come out. But if you throw a coin 1 million times, then the ratio of almost 50 to 50 will be released, this is the law of large numbers.
Therefore, in unpopular fractions, the ratio of skillful and not-so players is the same as that of popular ones, but the statistical error may be greater.

I understand that there is a statistical error (which may be inclined in any direction), but what these statistics do not take into account - which particular ships win more often. Almost in every faction there are the most efficient ships for which players play, and there are unprofitable ships. I would like the developers to correct the ship imbalance within the factions.

last edited by yaBATMAN

@yabatman said in Massive Fleet Update & Season 2!:

@canned_f3tus I used the latest stats provided by the developers. If provide a new one will be fine.

As for professionalism, so professional players for Chaos will also be able to win). It is necessary to compare with the same skill.

Yeah any pro has favorable odds of winning. But with chaos you aint gonna be using lances or ordnance. your gonna be using macro ships.

As for popularity, Chaos is no less popular than the Empire, although it is subjective and a matter of taste.
But it is not correct to say that if the faction is not popular, then more skilled players play for it. The more players, the smaller the statistical error. For example, a coin falling out 50%, if you flip a coin 100 times, a ratio of 46/54% may come out. But if you throw a coin 1 million times, then the ratio of almost 50 to 50 will be released, this is the law of large numbers.
Therefore, in unpopular fractions, the ratio of skillful and not-so players is the same as that of popular ones, but the statistical error may be greater.

I understand that there is a statistical error (which may be inclined in any direction), but what these statistics do not take into account - which particular ships win more often. Almost in every faction there are the most efficient ships for which players play, and there are unprofitable ships. I would like the developers to correct the ship imbalance within the factions.

Thats what we all want. More ships to become more viable to break up the current Meta issues this game has.

@canned_f3tus

Yeah any pro has favorable odds of winning. But with chaos you aint gonna be using lances or ordnance. your gonna be using macro ships.

Personally, I often used the assembly consisting of cruisers "Murders" with the ability to increase the accuracy of the Macro. Although I will not say that I am a professional player, but I feel comfortable playing with such a fleet, it is universal, you can kite against slow opponents, and you can catch up, for example, with Eldar.

Thats what we all want. More ships to become more viable to break up the current Meta issues this game has.

I would suggest such a solution. Unprofitable ships just make cheaper. It is not necessary to change their characteristics, it is enough to reduce their points value and they will immediately become attractive.

@yabatman First, the statistic is old and it says nothing about whether macro brawl or lance kiting fleets were used. Several people have already stated that the slaughter brawling fleetbuild works. Lance Kiting with chaos does not work for several reasons:

  1. The alpha strike damage is to low. You cause too little damage in the time the opponent needs to close up, in most cases, you are not even able to bring down the shields. One possible improvement would be to increase the damage and reloadtime in the same relation (dps stays the same). So you could fire and during reload reposition. Or an other option make reload work with lances.
  2. Detection. There are too little options for survey. You have to rely on escorts, which are destroyed first in MP and then you are blind (you cannot shoot at something you cannot see). So you have to close up, where lances are second. One possible solution imo whould be, if we could have splitted launch bays, giving orders to every launch bay separaty to survey a larger area. Or reduce the cooldown of augur probe dramatically (by 75%).
  3. Ordnance, I know it's not a typical lance topic but it yould help for a kiting fleet. Bombers in the current meta are not really reliable and counterd to easily. An improvement of bombers would be desireable, for example, a 50% increase in speed.

@torgen According to statistics, I already answered, you apparently did not read. I took the last one that was published by the developers, if they publish a new one it will be good. Although there have been many changes, but the main characteristics have not changed since that time (health, armor, boarding power, composition of weapons, attack range, speed). From this we can conclude that both then and now these 2 fractions are approximately equal in strength.

If change the mechanics of Lance, then it must be changed in all factions and not exclusively in only one.
And of course, you need to engage in reconnaissance, take care of corvettes and so on, it’s just as important as doing damage.

Regarding aviation, I do not think it is quite effective, just need to use it correctly. For example, do not send bombers alone, but send first fighters that will distract anti-aircraft guns and then bombers.
But aircraft carriers are now really expensive, it may be worth reducing their points.

last edited by yaBATMAN

@yabatman As I wrote the statistic don't tell anything about the builds and strategies used. Whitch build/strategy was sucessful and which not. As I remember for chaos, the most popular build was the 5x Slaughter setup with reload stance, which is still viable.

Lance mechanics, of course they should be changed for all factions.

I know that the escort are very important for reconnaissance, but the opponent knows that too. For this reason they are priority targets in MP. And they die very quickly, its nearly impossible to withdraw them.

Regarding aviation, I do not think it is quite effective, just need to use it correctly. For example, do not send bombers alone, but send first fighters that will distract anti-aircraft guns and then bombers.

I know how to use aviation 😉 , but at the time you send your bombers after the first fighter wave the enemy is already on you, or the enemy is to fast for your bombers, or you are loosing sight and the aircraft return. Imo aviation need rework.

@torgen Due to the fact that there is an imbalance of ships within the factions, many assemblies are more efficient, and many are useless.

Regarding the escort, it’s necessary, who better protects his intelligence, engages in counterintelligence and destroys enemy intelligence, he has advantages. I do not see a problem here, this is the interesting part of the game in multiplayer.

Aviation should be used together with reconnaissance and escort, as well as fighter cover, this is the most effective method. Naturally, aviation should not be the insurmountable weapon; the enemy should have countermeasures. So I do not think aviation is weak, but of course I would lower the price of aircraft carriers.

last edited by yaBATMAN

@yabatman Sorry, but I disagree in almots every thing you. But I will not go into it further, because I don't want an endless meaningless discussion you alread had with Ahriman. I accept that you do not change your mind, no matter what I write here. But maybe you can teach me better and play 10 games with a chaos kiting fleet against a legendary or at least gold player, win half of them, record them and share them on youtube or whatever. I and all the other players who disagree here with you would definitely be happy to learn from your experience.

@yabatman said in Massive Fleet Update & Season 2!:

@torgen According to statistics, I already answered, you apparently did not read. I took the last one that was published by the developers, if they publish a new one it will be good. Although there have been many changes, but the main characteristics have not changed since that time (health, armor, boarding power, composition of weapons, attack range, speed). From this we can conclude that both then and now these 2 fractions are approximately equal in strength.

If change the mechanics of Lance, then it must be changed in all factions and not exclusively in only one.
And of course, you need to engage in reconnaissance, take care of corvettes and so on, it’s just as important as doing damage.

Regarding aviation, I do not think it is quite effective, just need to use it correctly. For example, do not send bombers alone, but send first fighters that will distract anti-aircraft guns and then bombers.
But aircraft carriers are now really expensive, it may be worth reducing their points.

Carrier ordnance problem isnt price its just that ordnance is so underwhelming. Yeah we can mix and micro the crap out of ordnance by timing and combining fighters and bombers but in practice it just isnt that rewarding because you need bomber saturation and only 4 bomber wings wont do any damage. Its pretty pathetic that we need over 14 hangers just to do reasonable damage (thats if your opponent is brain damaged) with bombers.

last edited by CANNED_F3TUS

@torgen Opinions may be different, this is just a matter of taste, we may have different styles, you can express your preferences and share impressions, but this will all be subjective.
But to state unequivocally, you need to have objective facts. So far from the facts we have the general mathematics and outdated statistics, if new statistics appear, we can have more accurate and reliable facts.

If you want, we can play together. I'm for Chaos and I will only play with ships with Lance cannons, and you are for the Imperial Navy and with Macro. My nickname in the Steam is the same as in the forum. What do you say?)

last edited by yaBATMAN

@yabatman Ok i am not the right benchmark. I was never legendary rank and probably never will be.

But I would be very happy to play with an experienced Chaos Player. Maybe we manage to play this weekend. 😊

@torgen So I did not say that I am a professional player. Moreover, I did not learn all the nuances of one faction, but I play for all the factions and my experience is dispersed, because diversity is important to me first and foremost, not victory.
So we will be about the same level of skill. So think. . .

While I wouldn't call the fleets massive, they are, serviceable however, but I guess without a sub-fleet system. This is perhapps the best that can be done.

But next time BFG3, I want (An element of verticality, -even just a visual one) and proper armadas with sub fleets.