How to make the mud more realistic (PC version)

hey i tried it, i was just spinning my wheels at some points in the proving grounds i tried raising the substance friction to 0.6 and it went a bit better

@Unster One thing I noticed tho, is that lowering the friction of mud, makes the vehicles, (specially lighter ones) to crazy spin the wheels on the -not deep- mud chunks. For example, wide but not at all deep mud patches in the middle of the road makes the UAZ469 go crazy spinning wheels. Like, the wheels aren't even 1/6 buried but the soil is just too slippery. Definitely, something is very wrong with how traction is handled in both games. I've grown up around all kind of Russian vehicles and they have waaay more traction than this, because most of the time, when the mud is not deep enough, there is hard soil below it and the weight of the car makes it get grip without spinning the wheels at all unless you suddenly apply to much gas.

Lowering mud friction in the game to make the deep mud harder, makes the -not deep- mud unrealistic because of how slippery it gets.

Haven't tried your latest values but I'm kinda losing hope and letting it to MR2 possible improvements. Maybe being playing BeamNG lately has made me picky because of how well traction works there.

last edited by deathcoreboy1

@Forces said in How to make the mud more realistic (PC version):

hey i tried it, i was just spinning my wheels at some points in the proving grounds i tried raising the substance friction to 0.6 and it went a bit better

Maybe your expectation is different from mine, but you should be spinning wheels in deep mud, that's the whole point. But even with my settings it's actually not easy to get stuck if you have 4wd and diff lock on. I had to intentionally go back and forth with full throttle in the Proving Ground's swamp to dig a hole and get stuck. This was with the C-255 or 375.

@deathcoreboy1 I'd say try my latest values because I did more than just lower the friction. I also lowered the mud's resistance, which makes it easier to go through mud, but also harder to climb out of a mud hole, and the lower push depth makes mud depth make a bigger difference.

BeamNG has great physics but doesn't have mud other than shallow, slippery mud which I'd say slips even more than MR's mud though it doesn't get you stuck if it's a flat surface.

BTW guys, I've spent considerable time on YouTube watching off-roading videos, and I've tried to emulate that behavior with these values. That's as close as I've been able to get so far.

Keep in mind that MR doesn't fully let you control the mud traction with these values. I've confirmed that putting in a crazy low value for substance friction, like 0.001 still results in considerable traction, a lot more than you'd expect with that value. So apparently the game checks the values and imposes certain limits.

last edited by Unster

@Unster Okay then. I'll give it a try. I'll have to go back a few posts to see the file where the changes have to be made cuz I forgot! lol

Thanks a lot @Unster !!

Also pinging @8up-local . I haven't seen him in some time but I remember he's complained about the mud being too easy. This may help. But like I said the mud is still better (more difficult) in ST with similar changes.

@Unster Hey, I've been testing these values and I've got to say I'm pretty impressed. I like it better now. Still gotta do some more testing but so far so good. I'm on MR by the way. Haven't tested the out on ST.

Only thing I see, is that while the vehicle is in movement, it behaves very well and realistic, but if you stop, even the tiniest elevation can get you spinning your wheels on the same place. Other than that, is nearly perfect for me.

@deathcoreboy1 What vehicle with what setup (4wd/diff lock) was spinning for you on a slight incline? Screenshot may help. Also test both with full throttle / gas and partial. Careful application of the gas pedal can sometimes get you going, even with the original settings.

If you want to test ST beta, use the same values but 0.9 for the FullPushDepth, at least that's what I'm using and I like it lot.

Glad to hear you're seeing something you like, but feel free to critique too, though that could also be an incorrect expectation on your part. πŸ˜‰

Keep in mind that the settings above were used with the template friction values that I also mentioned in this thread (for higher pavement traction which can also apply to hard dirt). So you'll want to make sure you have those, and are testing with a vehicle that doesn't have custom friction values, so we are on the same page.

last edited by Unster

@Unster Yes, I still have set up those values you shared for higher "hard soil" traction and I'm using stock vehicles this time. I'm playing a mod map with the C-256, C-4310 and A-3251. Happened with the A-3251 as well as the C253. I'll take a screenshot for you when I get home, it's pretty easy to replicate. But you know, with this setting is way more effective the use of "momentum" and I kinda like that, so I'm pretty happy the way it is right now. If you still want to tweak it, I'll keep sharing my feedback.

Edit: ohh, and I will give it a try with Spintires once I finish this map. I like to take one thing at a time, otherwise I never finish anything πŸ˜ƒ

last edited by deathcoreboy1

@deathcoreboy1 said in How to make the mud more realistic (PC version):

I'm playing a mod map with the C-256, C-4310 and A-3251. Happened with the A-3251 as well as the C253.

You mean the blue Uaz and C-256, right? I haven't test those but I can also take a look at them when I get home. I did test the A-469 which is essentially the same vehicle but with skinnier tires.

Also note that in the template friction file I changed the order of tire types. Just FYI, in case you only copied the numbers and didn't pay attention to the tire types.

BTW, I'm kind of the opposite with maps. I often have 2 saved games and I take turns between them, plus I also play ST on the same day where I have another saved game or two. I'm more of a multi-tasker. πŸ™‚

last edited by Unster

BTW, to anyone who thinks my settings are too slippery, they should watch this video:
Youtube Video

This may be more of an extreme case, but I think gamers generally like to think that these off-roaders should be invincible mud climbers. They are still much better than road vehicles, but they're certainly not invincible.

@Unster Well, in that video, the soil is more like lose sand, so it's expected to have limited grip. BTW, I don't think your settings are too slippery. They are way better than vanilla for sure.

@deathcoreboy1 At first I thought that was sand too, but at the end of the video it looks more like soil, so that's probably what it is.

Anyway, I just tested the A class on Proving Ground and I feel you were right that they get stuck a bit too easily. So use 0.9 for the full push depth, same as in ST. I think 0.9 is about right. It means you'll reach minimum friction at 0.9 x the radius of your tire, at least that's my understanding matched by observation. The big trucks felt OK to me at 0.8 but 0.9 is fine too.

last edited by Unster

@Unster Okay! I'll give it a shot today. Couldn't manage to find some spare time yesterday to play the game and take a screenshot but the weekend is coming so I might be able to play a few hours.

You know, I'm pretty impressed by what you've accomplished here. I think you should compile these settings on the first post so people don't have to read the whole thread to get the result of your research. You can keep updating it as we go testing and discovering.

I saw a few videos yesterday of the Kraz and some Urals and I agree with you. It all depends heavily on the type of soil tho. The game simplifies it with "hard soil", "Mud" and the transition in between. But IRL, the mud can be composed of many types of soil. The more "rocky" it is, the less slippery. Also, the base beneath the mud plays a huge role in how trucks behave. If you have a compressed base below, let's say, 50cm of mud, the truck will most likely have grip, but if the base is somewhat mellow, the truck will sink and spin wheels like crazy.

I allways remember, on the front of my hometown house, there was a huge pithole on the road like the ones on mudrunner. It was probably 70-80cm deep and filled with water when it rained. Thing is, the trucks and cars managed to go through it relatively easy because, below the water, the soil was very compressed and rocky. My point here is that, with the available resources in-game, you are as close as the real thing as we can possibly go with these settings.

I'll be back with some feedback when I try 0.9 out.

@deathcoreboy1 Don't worry about the screenshots, since I already tested & re-adjusted. But if you have any other weird behavior let me know and I can take a look at it.

Yes, traction depends heavily on the surface type and soil composition. The bottom line is MR and ST have somewhat different muds. MR's is stiffer and doesn't make you sink as easily, but the same settings can be used in both games.

Good idea to update the original post. I just did that.

@Unster still around, this time of the season is when i am the busiest. will give this a look when i get the chance. πŸ‘πŸ½

@Unster I tested it on the weekend and it works perfectly! Even with mod trucks and scout vehicles, the mud seems to behave way better. I'm happy with it for now. Thanks a lot, mΓ­ster! you've done a great job!

@deathcoreboy1 Thanks, I'm happy with it too. The scout vehicles actually behave better with these settings in MR than ST for some reason. In ST I even had to set the Uaz wheel to highway friction which made it better but still a bit too capable in the mud (larger trucks are fine). In MR with the default friction the scout vehicles get stuck properly. It's probably because MR and ST handle the mass of a vehicle differently.

This has definitely made MR much more enjoyable for me, and I'm glad to hear you feel the same way.