Examples Of Terminator Bots, Per Request

Right now, there's a lot of bullshit with the AI. I've got a huge Forum Post here that goes in-depth about these issues that also contains HC tips and my own suggestions.

However, one of the mods, @Raibi, asked me on another post to provide some video evidence of these issues.

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So, after a lot of replay watching, video trimming, and downloading/using some free video software that I can't even remember the name of, I bring you all this:

Youtube Video

There are several types of AI issues that happen in this video. I'll provide some timestamps for each type, as I grouped them all together.

-> The video starts with some bullshit where the AI swarm the objective within the first ten seconds of the counterattack starting, wiping over half the team instantly.

-> 0:17 - Failure To Fall Back (FTFB) = Bots refuse to retreat after an objective is captured.

-> 0:57 - Laser Guided Molotov System (LGMS) = Bots being insanely accurate with grenades, and not even needing line of sight to hit you with one.

-> 2:00 - Insane Accuracy (IA) = Bots lock on to you and land hits insanely fast.

-> 3:58 - First-Shot Accuracy (FSA) = The opposite of IA. Instead of missing the first shots and hitting the rest, bots hit the first shot and miss the rest.

-> 6:26 - Wallbangs = Bots just straight-up track you and shoot you through solid objects.

One more thing; at both 3:22 and 7:07, I clearly hit a bot with a Mosin only to have the bot survive and kill me. This is rare on my end, but it happens even after the patch. EDIT: There was a hotfix on the Live servers that might've fixed this issue.

last edited by MarksmanMax

Bots eating .54r like its bread with cheese is the norm in my experience.

Until this patch I only used the 91/30 rarely, but when I did decide to do so, the mostly fun ride of bolt-action supremacy usually ended when .54r center-mass stopped working and using a pistol was a better option on targets both near and far.

Great video. You had me laughing with hilarious sympathy through all of it.

About half of this I wouldn't call BS, but pretty human behavior on the part of the bots. Most of the wall-banging clips, for example, make perfect sense to me if I was being engaged by a human. If I'm engaging someone (game or real life) and they duck behind cover, two possible actions are: wait patiently aiming right at the edge of their cover for them to pop back out, or pump a bunch of rounds into the cover if I think I can shoot through it. This makes the handful of times where you're spotted and engaged, move behind cover, then get killed immediately on reemerging make some sense. The shot through the floor clip is crazy, I've never seen that happen in the game, but it's not completely unrealistic since you had just run down a staircase so it's easy to guess where you might be.

@MarksmanMax said in Examples Of Terminator Bots, Per Request:

-> 3:58 - First-Shot Accuracy (FSA) = The opposite of IA. Instead of missing the first shots and hitting the rest, bots hit the first shot and miss the rest.

This whole section is gold. If the bots pulled off these kinds of shots rarely, I wouldn't complain, since most are technically realistic. But the frequency that I get shot and killed that quickly is insane. It stops being fun after about the 4th time I'm killed by a bot my brain hasn't even processed as a threat yet. You've got some great clips in there of my biggest annoyance with the game right now.

4:10 - "That's it right there. That's exactly the bug." I couldn't agree more. The next two minutes of footage from here is about 90% crazy aimbot bullshit (with the exception of the clip starting at 5:08, that looks totally legit to me).

You didn't capture any video of being killed by a bot that wasn't even looking at you, and I don't think I've even witnessed it happen on 1.2 so that may be fixed? 4:58 is damned close though, holy fuck, that guy would be a world champion speed shooter if human. And again at 5:38 - killed in one shot by someone part-way through standing up - WTF?

@Uberyankee said in Examples Of Terminator Bots, Per Request:

Until this patch I only used the 91/30 rarely, but when I did decide to do so, the mostly fun ride of bolt-action supremacy usually ended when .54r center-mass stopped working and using a pistol was a better option on targets both near and far.

For me, this bug happens rarely, but it happens. Extremely annoying for sure.

@MAA_Bunny said in Examples Of Terminator Bots, Per Request:

About half of this I wouldn't call BS, but pretty human behavior on the part of the bots. Most of the wall-banging clips, for example, make perfect sense to me if I was being engaged by a human. If I'm engaging someone (game or real life) and they duck behind cover, two possible actions are: wait patiently aiming right at the edge of their cover for them to pop back out, or pump a bunch of rounds into the cover if I think I can shoot through it. This makes the handful of times where you're spotted and engaged, move behind cover, then get killed immediately on reemerging make some sense.

I appreciate your optimism, but I'd get rid of it if I were you lol. A friend of mine was shot at by a bot and ran the entire length of a sheet metal fence. The bot dumped his entire magazine exactly at my friend's location, regardless of where he was. I've seen enough examples of this to conclude that bots track you through walls as soon as they start shooting at you.

@MAA_Bunny said in Examples Of Terminator Bots, Per Request:

The shot through the floor clip is crazy, I've never seen that happen in the game, but it's not completely unrealistic since you had just run down a staircase so it's easy to guess where you might be.

I don't even think he fired any other rounds through the floor, though, but even if that was just an extremely lucky occurrence, it's still bullshit lmao. EDIT: Also, that whole scenario is also bullshit because I think I shot the bot with the PKM and he just tanked it somehow and refused to die.

I just don't think bots should be given the ability to "guess" where a player is and shoot through walls to try and get them, because it seems extremely unfair to the player.

@MAA_Bunny said in Examples Of Terminator Bots, Per Request:

This whole section is gold. If the bots pulled off these kinds of shots rarely, I wouldn't complain, since most are technically realistic. But the frequency that I get shot and killed that quickly is insane. It stops being fun after about the 4th time I'm killed by a bot my brain hasn't even processed as a threat yet. You've got some great clips in there of my biggest annoyance with the game right now.

To be honest, I think this whole video is pretty hilarious (at my expense though lmao). These examples for this were all clips that clearly showcased that the first shot hit (for the most part) while the other shots missed the target.

@MAA_Bunny said in Examples Of Terminator Bots, Per Request:

4:10 - "That's it right there. That's exactly the bug." I couldn't agree more. The next two minutes of footage from here is about 90% crazy aimbot bullshit (with the exception of the clip starting at 5:08, that looks totally legit to me).

Yup, It's all some shiza.

The reason I kept the clip at 5:08 isn't actually there to show off the AI being OP. That clip is actually there to show how the AI misses shots and seems fair to fight for a different person while I just get bodied instantly at 5:04. The guy finally dies by a point-blank AMR but that doesn't seem out of the ordinary, really. I just kept it because it was funny lmao.

@MAA_Bunny said in Examples Of Terminator Bots, Per Request:

You didn't capture any video of being killed by a bot that wasn't even looking at you, and I don't think I've even witnessed it happen on 1.2 so that may be fixed?

Nothing in this video, but I've got a great clip that I'll edit soon where my friend was shot by a bot who literally had his back to him. Shit was insane.

@MAA_Bunny said in Examples Of Terminator Bots, Per Request:

4:58 is damned close though, holy fuck, that guy would be a world champion speed shooter if human. And again at 5:38 - killed in one shot by someone part-way through standing up - WTF?

I didn't have a good view of it myself, so I didn't save it, but my friend (same guy lmao) was killed a couple of days ago by a prone bot facing the opposite direction who did a 180 and instantly killed him.

EDIT: I also deliberately ordered these clips from least to most bullshit (so from bots simply failing to fall back to the next point to bots just ignoring that walls exist).

last edited by MarksmanMax

Thank you for making this. This is exactly the same type of bullshit I get.

@Sgt-Kanyo said in Examples Of Terminator Bots, Per Request:

Thank you for making this. This is exactly the same type of bullshit I get.

You're welcome lol. It was quite a bit of work, but I'd say the result was worth it.

@MAA_Bunny said in Examples Of Terminator Bots, Per Request:

About half of this I wouldn't call BS, but pretty human behavior on the part of the bots. Most of the wall-banging clips, for example, make perfect sense to me if I was being engaged by a human. If I'm engaging someone (game or real life) and they duck behind cover, two possible actions are: wait patiently aiming right at the edge of their cover for them to pop back out, or pump a bunch of rounds into the cover if I think I can shoot through it. This makes the handful of times where you're spotted and engaged, move behind cover, then get killed immediately on reemerging make some sense.

I appreciate your optimism, but I'd get rid of it if I were you lol. A friend of mine was shot at by a bot and ran the entire length of a sheet metal fence. The bot dumped his entire magazine exactly at my friend's location, regardless of where he was. I've seen enough examples of this to conclude that bots track you through walls as soon as they start shooting at you.

Completely correct on that. I was on the map Hideout, security, first objective, on the roof and I was being shot at, so I laid down, and crawled across it to the back of the objective near the stairs, and even though it was impossible for the insurg to see me from his angle on the ground, he kept shooting me all the way, as if he had me locked on, he eventually killed me, and the thing you guys keep forgetting about is that it seems the bots have, on occasion, unlimited ammo.

@AncientHoplite said in Examples Of Terminator Bots, Per Request:

...it seems the bots have, on occasion, unlimited ammo.

I don't think bots actually have unlimited ammo, though. Now they'll actually fall back to resupply if they run dry.

I don't think bots actually have unlimited ammo, though. Now they'll actually fall back to resupply if they run dry.

@MarksmanMax The bot that was shooting me, must of laid down at the very least 50 rounds, I was crawling for a good 25 seconds, and he didn't stop firing. Think about how many issues have slipped through the devs code. This wouldn't shock me in the least.

@AncientHoplite said in Examples Of Terminator Bots, Per Request:

I don't think bots actually have unlimited ammo, though. Now they'll actually fall back to resupply if they run dry.

@MarksmanMax The bot that was shooting me, must of laid down at the very least 50 rounds, I was crawling for a good 25 seconds, and he didn't stop firing. Think about how many issues have slipped through the devs code. This wouldn't shock me in the least.

I mean, they shouldn't have unlimited, ammo, but who knows really lol.

@MarksmanMax said in Examples Of Terminator Bots, Per Request:

I appreciate your optimism, but I'd get rid of it if I were you lol. A friend of mine was shot at by a bot and ran the entire length of a sheet metal fence. The bot dumped his entire magazine exactly at my friend's location, regardless of where he was. I've seen enough examples of this to conclude that bots track you through walls as soon as they start shooting at you.

I am, indeed, a hopeless optimist.

You've got a good point. I'd like to see bots firing at where they think a player is through walls sometimes, but they shouldn't have 100% knowledge of where the player is. And, now that you mention it, I never see bots firing at someplace where there isn't actually a player. It'd be cool if they did.

The reason I kept the clip at 5:08 isn't actually there to show off the AI being OP. That clip is actually there to show how the AI misses shots and seems fair to fight for a different person while I just get bodied instantly at 5:04. The guy finally dies by a point-blank AMR but that doesn't seem out of the ordinary, really. I just kept it because it was funny lmao.

It's a hilarious clip, and a great example of why aiming is a good idea. 😄 I've noticed that too - I'll get one-shot killed to the face time and again, then spectate someone who has a bot unload an entire mag and miss. I've thought that maybe bots shoot better at players with higher levels or as a player does better - but I still get one-shot killed super often on the CTE when my level is 0 or 1 and when I'm playing like shit. So, I've no idea why it happens or if there's a pattern.

Nothing in this video, but I've got a great clip that I'll edit soon where my friend was shot by a bot who literally had his back to him. Shit was insane.

Looking forward to seeing this. The lightening reflex aim-bots and the shooting out of the back of their head bots are the two things I hate most about the game right now. One is more BS and the other happens a lot more often.

I hope you keep doing this, it's an excellent service to the community. This video does a far better job at showing issues than pages of writing about it ever will. I hope the devs are watching.

@MAA_Bunny said in Examples Of Terminator Bots, Per Request:

Looking forward to seeing this. The lightening reflex aim-bots and the shooting out of the back of their head bots are the two things I hate most about the game right now.

Maybe don't look forward to it since I can't actually find this clip lmao. Maybe I can find it in the Replay or something.

I'm pretty sure the bots can not just track you through obstacles, but also have much better penetration.
I've had numerous times where I ducked to the ground and there was literally 2 meters of earth in front of me and yet I get killed instantly with a headshot. Not only should the earth stop the bullet, but even if it was only a few decimeters thick, it'd have diverted the bullet.
Meanwhile me shooting through some thin metal on a fence and I couldn't kill the haji behind it.

@Sgt-Kanyo said in Examples Of Terminator Bots, Per Request:

I'm pretty sure the bots can not just track you through obstacles

Yes they can. I'm getting sick of people telling me what they can and can not do when I've seen them do it myself.

@AncientHoplite said in Examples Of Terminator Bots, Per Request:

@Sgt-Kanyo said in Examples Of Terminator Bots, Per Request:

I'm pretty sure the bots can not just track you through obstacles

Yes they can. I'm getting sick of people telling me what they can and can not do when I've seen them do it myself.

You don't understand. The sentence I wrote implies that the bots CAN track you through walls and ALSO shoot you through obstacles.

Please fix the fucking AI already. It has been broken since the game was a beta.

last edited by Grave

@AncientHoplite Yes they can track you through walls. On ai difficulty 1.0 they will continue to track you for 4 seconds after spotting you; they can also track you for 4 seconds if they hear you sprinting. All sounds pretty fair to me

I can't believe you want to make the game easier; every situation in that video was avoidable.

Long live hard bots pussies, if anything make them harder.

@AncientHoplite Also I forgot to add that if the players makes sounds such as pain from a shot or coughing from a smoke this reveals your position to AI close by too.

Don't you want them to be human?
All this shit is dope.

last edited by ILuvSandstorm

@ILuvSandstorm said in Examples Of Terminator Bots, Per Request:

Don't you want them to be human?

I believe the creator of this topic had also this very idea in mind, when he assembled the video. He wants to achieve, that the AI resemble human behavior patters and react within the reasonable tolerance of what is humanly possible. I totally agree with his intentions and will contribute with my own private edit sometime later. I have a 3TB drive full of Sandstorm clips ready and waiting, with detailed annotations of the highlights (both positive & negative). Although I admit, a lot of the death scenarios in this video could have been avoided (and honestly, I don't understand, why these were included) , but many times all the skills in the world can't save you against wallhacking/aimbot using bots in this game, and there are a bunch of examples for them in the clip (4:05, 4:58, 5.30, 5:39, 7:08 [tracking through the floor]). Someone even wrote, he quit playing because bots are allowed to do in coop exactly that, for which he would certainly be banned in PvP.

last edited by kanneltaja72

You don't understand. The sentence I wrote implies that the bots CAN track you through walls and ALSO shoot you through obstacles.

@Sgt-Kanyo Yeah, I get ya. Apologies dude.

last edited by AncientHoplite