Nothing Changed

I was incredibly hopeful when reading the patch notes, so many problems seem to be fixed. But of course, as soon as I start the game, most of the supposed "fixes" aren't fixed at all.

My first two Hardcore Co-op matches, I had a Molotov thrown at me before the insurg even knew I was there, so much for the "line of sight" fix. An insurg also set up some sort of ricochet grenade system and somehow managed to bounce it off three walls, into the downstairs room and kill 80% of my team, so much for the 10-20% drop for grenade accuracy, sure it wasn't a boost??

You also mentioned "Known Issues" on your update post, yet nothing mentioned AI improvement, nothing was fixed, and I assume it never will be at this point. The AI is still bending bullets round corners, penetrating sandbags, with AK-47s, still insta-killing with superhuman reaction times, and one shot kills which shouldn't be possible with their ammo type. Please, instead of making new guns that have no effect on gameplay, creating new maps and game types (which just create more and more bugs to be fixed), focus on the stuff that needs fixing and balancing.

I can't speak for other players, but if these issues aren't addressed In the next patch, I won't be playing this game again. It's simply not enjoyable anymore. Here's to hoping everything works out.

last edited by AncientHoplite

Hello @AncientHoplite,

Thank you for this feedback regarding AI improvements. I'll pass this thread on to the team, so they can look into it.

I just want to say that I agree that the bots are completely broken. I am still waiting for them to be functional.

I agree that most of the fixes NW said are made are not made, Like enemy retreating while they still spawn at a secured area in COOP and the looping audio gun sounds. Please NW Interactive, please fix the bugs in your game i really love Insurgency Sandstorm and would hate to drop not playing it, like i did with Rainbow 6 Siege cause of poor bug fix management.

@Grave said in Nothing Changed:

I just want to say that I agree that the bots are completely broken. I am still waiting for them to be functional.

Dear Developers! Please look at these two clips and fix the issue for good.

The second example deserves special attention.

There is no way a human could defeat this bot

even if the barrel would have been pointed at exactly the spot of appearance.
This is stupidity beyond belief staring in your face. Yet you act as if it simply wasn't there at all and collectively turn a blind eye.

Youtube Video

Recorded 16.06.2019 (not in CTE)

You must realize this is a gamebreaking bug in need of the most urgent treatment possible.

More than six months have passed since game release, dozens of verified, valid reports on the forums, yet the bug is still out there in the wild. It occurs quite often, especially on the new Outskirts map or with DSHK gunners in general.

Why must one be relegated to the role of a mere spectator, when one has not made any mistake at all?
I honestly think, and it can not be emphasized enough: this is the most frustrating issue with your game right now.

In the example above:

  • I've made no mistake
  • made no false step
  • didn't proceed carelessly, didn't rush
  • had the upper hand
  • had ample situational awareness

yet I'm shot dead just like that and explicitly denied of playing through a match.
Just because you just can't manage to program a plausible AI and don't even bother to tackle the issue, which is unacceptable.

Please make this your priority above all else when deciding what issue to address next in coop. This kind of AI behavior ruins the coop part of the a game which otherwise would shape up to be above extraordinary. This is the biggest reason I've downvoted your game at Steam, otherwise I'd wholeheartedly recommend anyone to buy it. I'd change my opinion in case of positive feedback and an ultimate fix (meaning: a fix which would hopefully not be undone with subsequent game versions).

Thank you.

last edited by kanneltaja72

Hey @kanneltaja72

Thank you for the further information and the clip regarding the AI issue. This is really helpful! I'll also pass it on to the team!

@kanneltaja72 said in Nothing Changed:

There is no way a human could defeat this bot

even if the barrel would have been pointed at exactly the spot of appearance.
This is stupidity beyond belief staring in your face. Yet you act as if it simply wasn't there at all and collectively turn a blind eye.

Youtube Video

Recorded 16.06.2019 (not in CTE)

You must realize this is a gamebreaking bug in need of the most urgent treatment possible.

More than six months have passed since game release, dozens of verified, valid reports on the forums, yet the bug is still out there in the wild. It occurs quite often, especially on the new Outskirts map or with DSHK gunners in general.

Why must one be relegated to the role of a mere spectator, when one has not made any mistake at all?
I honestly think, and it can not be emphasized enough: this is the most frustrating issue with your game right now.

In the example above:

  • I've made no mistake
  • made no false step
  • didn't proceed carelessly, didn't rush
  • had the upper hand
  • had ample situational awareness

yet I'm shot dead just like that and explicitly denied of playing through a match.
Just because you just can't manage to program a plausible AI and don't even bother to tackle the issue, which is unacceptable.

This shit cracks me up, LOOK AT THIS! https://imgur.com/29FxANl He wasn't even aiming at you, all my theories were correct lol. The is the game version of the movie WANTED.....

last edited by AncientHoplite

This happens specially if you're prone!

I don't use MGs any more because of this "bot feature".
Sometimes I lie down and get insta-killed at the same second. There's perhaps some sort of extra awareness of bots concerning high value targets (aka MG/sniper/commander) and if you lie down, the only part of your body being hit is the head (= instakill).

There seem to be no disadvantages for bots targeting players on the ground (there should be, because your bodyarea is reduced to 1/8 and bots should have increased problems to see you ... that's why you lie down in the military in the first place - among other things). So the combination of

  • HVT
  • extra awareness
  • only headshots
  • no disadvantage (delay, accuracy etc.)

means insta-kills all the time.

Try to stay crouched with the MG (not meant as a tip to play, just to test out AI behaviour, MG is silly without the ability to prone), you'll see you suddenly won't be dead all the time.
This leads to players quit playing Insurgency at all (a lot of friends don't play ISS any more because of those insta-kills).

Might be worth a look from the devs perhaps 😉

This is only ONE of MANY problems with the bots.

instant kills
x-ray vision
fireproof
shooting bullets out of their ass
no hit registration
grenade sniping

last edited by Grave

@tacplay said in Nothing Changed:

some sort of extra awareness of bots concerning high value targets

Agreed, it happens a lot when you go prone, but I couldn't approximate just how much it really exagerrates the issue.
Let's look at another of your suggestion: categorized as HVT has the consequence of being red flagged.

How does the AI know whether I'm HVT if

  • he's had no chance of making visual contact yet

and on top of that

  • he's supposed to have limited capability to pinpoint my location by sound, since I'm using a silencer. The silenced PKM or M249 sounds just like another typical AR (used by "non-HVTs").

Not to mention,

  • the noise of battle all around in the background should all but drown out my weapon's already reduced sound output.

The whole story just doesn't make any sense at all, no matter from which aspect we'd try to analyse it to construe a meaning out of this behavior.

last edited by kanneltaja72

@kanneltaja72
The AI shouldn't be aware, but it surely is 😉
I'm not a coder, but to implement some sort of priority targeting, you would target those players more than others. So if you are a MG role, more bots target you more often. Probably more sophisticated than that, but kinda like that. So the question would be when NOT to target you with priority and how well this works within certain situations (line of sight, hearing, obstacles etc.).

But you're right, all speculations. Don't know if it's just coincidences, but I played some 800 hrs and from my personal experiences, I die usually 0-2 times with Observer, Demo or Advisor, while I die up to 4-6 times with MG, not playing differently or just having a bad day. If I go prone with the MG, this increases up to 12 times dead within a match.

Very often it's just a single headshot from far away or exactly the situation you show in the video: A bot comes into line of sight, within (usually) 1/4 - 1/2 sec. he hits me right in the penthouse, killing me instantly.