One of the features 'on the box' of the Hardcore ruleset is the equipment loss that occurs upon death, leaving the player reliant on scavenging until a resupply crate appears or the final objective. However, I would argue that equipment loss isn't as vital to the Hardcore experience as it may seem. The movement speed reduction is the most important. The game feels more grounded and immersive and goes at an entirely different pace. The reduced HUD helps to further increase immersion more.

I would argue that the loss of all equipment doesn't help increase immersion at all.

This is certainly not helped by the issue of team killing in Hardcore. Given that there are no player tags(which I certainly approve of), the odds of being shot by an ally are much higher. The feeling of losing your equipment not to an enemy but to a teammate that made a mistake is just awful. At the least the mode would benefit from one not losing their equipment if a teammate killed them.

Perhaps an alternative to losing your equipment upon death would be to lose an amount of supply points until you reach a supply crate, thus limiting your loadout and utility. Maybe instead of 20 you drop down to 15, then 10, then 5. And once you reach a crate you'll be restored to the full 20. As is, returning to the heat of battle just doesn't feel all that immersive with only a bolt action rifle. Especially when you fell at the hands of a comrade.

Thoughts?

@Demotic said in A Discussion on Equipment Loss in Hardcore Checkpoint:

One of the features 'on the box' of the Hardcore ruleset is the equipment loss that occurs upon death, leaving the player reliant on scavenging until a resupply crate appears or the final objective. However, I would argue that equipment loss isn't as vital to the Hardcore experience as it may seem. The movement speed reduction is the most important. The game feels more grounded and immersive and goes at an entirely different pace. The reduced HUD helps to further increase immersion more.

Absolutely. The reduced move speed is something I've wanted for ages.

@Demotic said in A Discussion on Equipment Loss in Hardcore Checkpoint:

I would argue that the loss of all equipment doesn't help increase immersion at all.

Well, when it was first implemented, I think it did. You used to spawn in with a Mosin-Nagant with 20 reserve rounds, a Makarov with an extra mag, and a smoke grenade. This made sense to me because if equipment is limited, then those weapons are some of the cheapest weapons out there. Granted, an AKM would probably make more sense, but that would be too strong for the mechanic to exist in the first place. Now, I'll admit that this mechanic doesn't make a whole lot of sense in Checkpoint. A mechanic like this seems closer to Survival than anything else.

I like the idea of spawning in with unconventional weapons because you have to think more outside the box than you normally would. Most players just rush in with their full-auto M4s and gun everything that moves, but running around with a rifle older than you are probably won't work as well.

That being said, I'm not big on the new tweaks. The ability to keep your modded-out pistol just means that every HC player turns their sidearm into a weapon that surpasses Metal Gear, and then they just gun fools until they get a full-auto weapon to spray. Also, Security getting an M24 isn't a change I like. The Mosin is a cheap, old-ass rifle, but the M24 is still used by military groups today and is probably more expensive than most other firearms, so having an excess of them seems implausible. The Mosin is also just considerably better than the M24 by a long shot.

@Demotic said in A Discussion on Equipment Loss in Hardcore Checkpoint:

This is certainly not helped by the issue of team killing in Hardcore.

I personally think that you shouldn't lose your equipment if you're killed by a teammate- oh wait you said this lmao.

@Demotic said in A Discussion on Equipment Loss in Hardcore Checkpoint:

Perhaps an alternative to losing your equipment upon death would be to lose an amount of supply points until you reach a supply crate, thus limiting your loadout and utility. Maybe instead of 20 you drop down to 15, then 10, then 5. And once you reach a crate you'll be restored to the full 20.

Seems interesting, but it also doesn't really seem that punishing. Sure, having five supply would be pretty punishing, but for the most part, 15 or 10 supply points wouldn't hurt that badly. I think that this would just frustrate the shit out of most players since you'd also have to backtrack to the nearest respawn area, change your loadout with the new supply amount, and then rejoin the fight. Hardcore Checkpoint is slow enough already; it doesn't need to be slower lmao.

Realistically, it would make the most amount of sense if you just had a box on every objective and you didn't lose your equipment on death as that's closer to Insurgency: Source. In Source, Hardcore meant that you got extra supply (15 was the default for Classic, so you had 20 instead), but you had to fight harder enemies who I think were also better equipped. Sandstorm's "Hardcore" Checkpoint is actually closer to Insurgency: Source's "Elite" mode where you only get 10 supply regardless of the scenario and you also had fewer gear options. For instance, the Sniper couldn't get an M16A4 (I think) and the Support had access to only the M249 and not the Galil SAR or M14 EBR. You also didn't have access to Insurgent weapons, and I don't think any class could get Flashbangs. Simply getting fewer supply points (like 15 or even 10) could make Hardcore more challenging without yeeting your gear on every death.