Reload speeds not realistic for any weapon.

As a Advanced Small Arms Instructor and a operator. I have to tell you whoever has given you the techniques used for reloads and the time it takes for a rotational reload or a speed reload has definitely not done any research into just what a standard time is for a trained person. Reloads are ridiculously slow. Yet one could question if the enemy has to reload at all. I think I will put this in a separate blog but, you also need to improve the transition time going directly from primary to secondary as that it also is sloth slow. I could train a person who has never held a weapon to move faster then player models do in this game, in one afternoon.

I think some of the reload speeds are what they are for balance reasons and to encourage teamwork.

For example if the ARs would reload much faster than AKs it wouldn't be good for balance.
Youtube Video

I understand what you mean but even though this game is meant to be a realistic shooter game it is still hard to make everything super realistic because it is, after all, a game and they have to make the game balanced.

The speed reloads could be like 5-10% faster.

Another thing to consider is that while reloading can be much faster under ideal conditions at the range, the game is not set at such a place. The fast reloads, like any action requiring speed and some degree of precision are much easier to perform on the range than in the field when burdened with equipment and under the pressure of combat.

In the middle of combat, with a weapon being operated by some nameless soldier in some insurgent group or milita, with a hundred outside considerations and stressors, reload speed would IMO be much reduced.

YES! I hate that! I am no "operator" like gunz there, but in my civilian world im also a (former) firearms instructor, the incredibly slow reload and transition speeds are so annoying. I wish they'd increase those speeds.

I totally agree with you cool_lad, they tried to draw upon both some of their own military experience and simultaneously keep the environment in which the game is set in mind. They did a lot of interviewing, video watching, and took a lot of suggestions on mechanics from combat vets.

Very few of the people this game is mirroring have any appreciable formal weapons experience, and are under stress. It also forces you to choose your location and manner of engagement in a much more realistic manner.

I almost never have ammo issues in firefights now that I've learned the maps and guns. Worse case, pack a makarov with a speed draw holster for just in case.

I DO however agree that some of the reloads on some of the more unfamiliar weapons are a bit too close to the book, and could use a 5-10% increase like someone suggested, but I'd have to see it in game.

last edited by Bobondacob

Hi @gunzc21 welcome to the forums. Where do you teach?

Reloads are ridiculously slow. ... I could train a person who has never held a weapon to move faster then player models do in this game, in one afternoon.

I assume this is hyperbole. In my experience the overall reload speeds aren't too far off from what typical combat reload speeds are for standard infantry. Keeping in mind, like @cool_lad said above, that most characters do not represent special forces or highly trained "operators." The AR-15 pattern rifles in game speed reload in about 3 seconds. This is certainly on the slow side by competition standards, but as a baseline for combat infantry I wouldn't call it "ridiculous."

One thing you may be noting is the proportion of movement isn't great. The in-game animations run the reloads at a fairly consistent speed, where in real life we tend to perform certain actions more quickly than others - such as moving a fresh mag to the gun.

@gunzc21 said in Reload speeds not realistic for any weapon.:

As a Advanced Small Arms Instructor and a operator. I have to tell you whoever has given you the techniques used for reloads and the time it takes for a rotational reload or a speed reload has definitely not done any research into just what a standard time is for a trained person. Reloads are ridiculously slow. Yet one could question if the enemy has to reload at all. I think I will put this in a separate blog but, you also need to improve the transition time going directly from primary to secondary as that it also is sloth slow. I could train a person who has never held a weapon to move faster then player models do in this game, in one afternoon.

I´m sure theres faster reloads in RL than in INS. But: Theres also more lifes (the green shroom from Mario) in INS then in RL.
So, you can complain about a deviation like this one. But you also can come to the point where you realise, that RL is not
to compared with a video game.

It's 2021 now, and it's still too damn slow. I quit playing for quite some time and I'm back into it again, but this problem just makes the game so difficult to enjoy.

The argument that "it's a game tho, not real life" just doesn't hold any water when the fun of the game's weapons is that they physically simulate the real thing, in much the same way as a flight simulator simulates flight. No one defending the status-quo here has given any reason beyond that 'it's a game'. From a gameplay perspective, it feels obnoxious, it's not fun. I do like Insurgency: Sandstorm because it's not 100% a realism simulator, but much of the fun comes from the fact the weapons do function authentically for the more part, minus the obnoxiously slow reload speeds.

I was in the Air Force for 7 years, I did Army support for just over 3 of those years. I trained with the average soldier often, and I qualified using the M9 and the M4. The reload speeds (even granted the conditions) are just obscenely slow. We practiced tactical reloads, and speed reloads, in nasty weather conditions, in live-fire training exercises under immense pressure. The reload speeds in Insurgency for both speed and tactical reloads are closer to a leisure day at the range, than anything required by the military.

As for the insurgents who lack proper training, sure you could make the case that the average one doesn't have that training, but from a gameplay perspective, you'd want them to be that fast, and I think some don't give the experienced ones enough credit. Even considering their lack of training, the reload speeds are too damn slow.

If you think the reload speeds are okay, you can't convince me that it's realistic, or fun from a gameplay perspective in its current state. I'm tired of people blindly defending the status quo. Great, you're supportive of the game as it is, so tell me what do you get out of unrealistically slow reload speeds in a game that is fun because it's basically a co-op/competitive firearm combat simulator?

@cool_lad increasingly wrong dude. I was in Iraq. This is why they train you a thousand times to do basic stuff. Muscle memory. It's not something you'd think about. You just do it.

@buyingin2abeta said in Reload speeds not realistic for any weapon.:

increasingly wrong dude. I was in Iraq. This is why they train you a thousand times to do basic stuff

the guys in this game are ragtag insurgents, or ragtag militia, maybe with some foreign advisors in the mix. They don't have the luxury of countless hours of training lol

the game fucking sucks ass.

I've found that looking at it as still being very much an early access games, explains a lot of things going on with this game.

@edbods even being a militia will you not have basic training. This is my point man. I'm having a game made that would surely smash this game to death like Godzilla's dick smashing the white house. I wouldn't have the reloading whether it be speed reload or basic reload this slow. It's not great. The people who made the game are stoked to sell their 15 million dollars of a game (33$ x 500k copies) so we're sure we can do better than this dumpster fire.

The game could be great but if you talk to anyone who plays this game there's a fact that any player can find 20 things wrong with the game. Sure the game is in early access. I don't even have a Xbox One and my friend doesn't want to play the gane because he knows it crashes on that system. Not a great move for the company developing the game. It's analogous to H1Z1 to me. Not even 5k people play the game at least on Steam and that's saying a lot. More people play Warframe and I hate that game.

The game development team who works on H1Z1 just gave up. Players are complaining that they don't fix anything or take way too long. I see the complaints and they're valid, the game crashes, the guns don't make sounds, etc. Game dev puts out more shirts to wear. This isn't fixing the game. Their heads are firmly planted in their asses.

last edited by Buyingin2aBeta

@buyingin2abeta

even being a militia will you not have basic training. This is my point man

Wait now I'm confused - your first reply was saying the other guy was "increasingly wrong" and that you were in iraq, thousand times of training etc. etc. when the other guy was saying:

In the middle of combat, with a weapon being operated by some nameless soldier in some insurgent group or milita, with a hundred outside considerations and stressors, reload speed would IMO be much reduced.

So are we just both agreeing with him? lol

I'm having a game made that would surely smash this game to death like Godzilla's dick smashing the white house

Everyone I've heard that says this never commits, here's hoping your "insurgency killer" isn't just some spur of the moment insult at a game that definitely still needs polish.

@edbods if you're in a militia there's usually some kind of training. At least in the US. They don't want people in a militia where that guy who never goes to training stuff might just shoot one of his guys. Something like that. They train on their own.

In the middle of combat, with a weapon being operated by some nameless soldier in some insurgent group or milita, with a hundred outside considerations and stressors, reload speed would IMO be much reduced.

I don't know how to quote stuff. On mobile. I didn't write that. I think the reload speed should be increased.

Oh shit man. It's late here, I live near Russia and it's like 6am… I didn't really get all of that.

I could insult many more games than just Insurgency Brokenstorm. Look at Battlefield 2042. Terrible. COD CW and Vanguard. Terrible. Many other FPS games arr just trash and I'm super serious my man. These people just sold some games and probably outsourced the fixing of bugs to Pakistan for 7k$ per year per person to fix shit. This wouldn't be our goal and we're not 18 and new at life. We have a good idea how to go about doing this. We've been in contact with copyright lawyers, and many different game dev companies about cost and timeframes and prototype cost. We're fucking serious and we're going to take your money and give you a game we'll actually play.

last edited by Buyingin2aBeta

@buyingin2abeta with all due respect, are you actually reading my posts properly? I said the other guy wrote that quoted text. Not you.

I'd imagine the "training" middle eastern militias would get would amount to no more than "here's an AK, point at the bad guys and pull the trigger to shoot. Don't let it get too dirty or it will stop working. Put new magazines here when it runs out of ammo. etc. some of the reloads are definitely artificially lengthened, probably to stop the game from becoming too much of a run and gun (as if that isn't fun itself), the garand's reload is the biggest offender of this. The M16's reload where your hand slaps the side of the gun also feels too long.

I certainly hope your game lives up to what you say it'll be, because it will be a nice change from half-assed cash grabs that pass for games these days.

last edited by edbods

@edbods we'll make the game. Don't worry. We're just working on the GDD and we'll for sure listen to the players. We're not going to lose the things that are important. THE PLAYERS.

@edbods I sent you a "chat". This forum software is really bad. Is discourse difficult to setup?

@buyingin2abeta oh i missed it, yeah this forum software is really wonky