Champion Ladder grievance

There seriously need to be done something to fix the problem

If you want to discourage conceeding, you need to fix the way team balancing is done.

No one wants to play their 4th chaos team in a row rated 300 points above them, while half their team is on the injured reserve.

And lets be absolutely clear- Nearly half of the active teams in champion ladder are chaos teams.

Too many players play their race of choice to a good record, then build chaos teams to serve no other purpose other than to put the competition out of action. Literally half of all matches these days involve a chaos team (or their dlc cousins, the nurgle, just as deadly with the 2-8 clawpombers per team). Too many more don't even have a race of choice and just like ruining teams without regard to the ball.

You guys have really got to put your heads together and find a solution. This is what kept the first iteration of the game from taking off, and its hurting the growth of this one. No one worth anything minds playing a chaos team or two, but when you play 4 in a row, two of who literally ignore the ball if it means killing mroe players, it gets frustrating.

You combine that with punishing players for conceding, a mechanic added by games workshop to give players a way to keep their teams alive. There is enough punishment built into concessions without taking the strategic option away.

You can punish DC's without punishing all concedes.

But really, there needs to be a way to guarantee so many team runs don't end because they get a bad run of the same race over and over. The simplest solution would be to not match a player against the same race he just played. If that means the overpopulated races have longer wait times for games, GOOD! Maybe we'll actually see more variety in the game then!

BB2 Champion Ladder Admin Team

And lets be absolutely clear- Nearly half of the active teams in champion ladder are chaos teams.

That's simply not true. While there are generally more bash teams than agi teams the imbalance is nowhere near as bad as you suggest. I don't have up-to-date numbers to hand for this season, but if previous seasons are any indication then 10% is a far more accurate number.

As for a solution, it's been mentioned before: make the leagues resurrection style. People don't seem to want that though, for some reason.

You can punish DC's without punishing all concedes.

No we can't. It's impossible to tell the difference between a disconnection and a concession.

Active being the operative word.

As in searching for a game at any given time, not "sitting in the league but hasn't played a game in a week because the coach is using his chaos team instead"

"No we can't. It's impossible to tell the difference between a disconnection and a concession."

You could if the game was programmed to, if you had learned a single thing from previous

You claim to be able to detect "pausing" (even though no such functions even exist) which tells me the whole root of the issue is that no one has updated a damn thing since the first game, and you've sold a reskin as a sequel.

The triviality of programming a difference between concedes and dc's is so easy that there is no excuse for it not having happened.

last edited by crazyguy_co
BB2 Champion Ladder Admin Team

Yes, I meant active. I was looking at matches played by each race over the last 10 days of the season.

"I" am not Cyanide. I'm a volunteer admin for the league. As such I cannot tell the difference between a disconnection and a concession with the data I have to run the league.

Want to know how I know you are lying?

Because 10% would be LESS than expected from the 2 teams. If only 10% of games had those two teams, then the two teams would be played less than any other.

Meanwhile, the first step to solving the problem would be restricting each coach to one team in the champion ladder, instead of flat you making up statistics to hide the problem.

BB2 Champion Ladder Admin Team

No, I'm, not lying. You can see the data for yourself on goblinspy. I was talking about Chaos, not Chaos and Nurgle. The bit of your post I quoted and replied to was "Nearly half of the active teams in champion ladder are chaos teams".

And no, we will not be restricting coaches in any way.

Of course you won't

Because your goal isn't a fair and fun competition, its to make the job as easy as possible.

The same reason you don't consider exploiting bugs as exploiting, and refuse to punish players for it.

The same reason you use Goblin spy to make up your statistics, when it is clearly flawed as a measurement, since its SELF SELECTING and the chaos/nurgle teams aren't exactly recording their griefing games.

The same reason you won't let players use a tactical button added to the game to prevent the chaos/nurgle griefing that is taking over the league.

Because all of that would take some effort. Easier to just ban the complaints from the forums.

BB2 Champion Ladder Admin Team

How, exactly, will limiting the amount of play increase the fun for anyone? All that will happen is that fewer people will look for matches, fewer teams will be available, matching will be worse because of it and people will generally be unhappy.

Goblinspy is not self-selecting. It uses server downloads. It's complete data for the entire league. Your ignorance is on display here. The 10% figure I gave you was also from direct server downloads. For reference, the Chaos+Nurgle figure for the last 10 days of season 7 was 15%.

http://imgur.com/a/MML99

If you don't like it then play in COL rather than CCL.

last edited by dode74
Community Manager

Moving the posts to avoid spamming the Champion rule topic.

@crazyguy_co I think we get your point. Please note that I'm in charge of the official competitions in BB2. Dode, as well as the other community admins, are incredibly valuable, but they are volunteers and can only work with the tools we give them. And they're doing a great job with that. Thanks to focus on me if you have any grievance about the Cabalvision Official League. And please stay respectful.

@Netheos
You should have seen this coming. Additional to typical online game bashing and whining even as a tabletop game BB makes many of the players feel like every other team is overpowered, every other player has better luck and some strategies are so completely dominant that the whole game is completely unbalanced...

...and no matter of how many data proves the opposite you can't argue with that since BB is such a great game when it comes to creating a feeling that there is some kind of huge evil power who wants to see you suffer.

@crazyguy_co
I believe you that you are facing CPOMB chaos all the time. I don't. I get kicked my ass by dwarves and orcs, too - and all these elves are running circles around me. Nuffle hates us all. He just has different kinds of hell for any of us.

If you can't find some humor and fun in this, BB isn't the right game for you.
"I'll survive CPOMB-CCL - or die trying." That's the spirit of a true BB coach ;).

last edited by Ioelet

@loelet

I wish I could still pull up my history of my last 3 teams. All three had literally half the games against the two teams mentioned, once you get over 1200 rating. And looking through random teams histories on the elague, it's pretty consistent. there is always one know it all who can't see the difference between pointing out a problem and "whining". If you don't have solutions, but want to just join in the denial of the problem, please just go away. Table top leagues do not suffer this problem, ebcause trolling in table top you actually know the people, and the commisioners care. Try doing endzone fouls in tabletop and see how well that flies. The lack of care is not demonstrated any better than by allowing exploiting of known bugs.

@dode74
quantity != quality.

@Netheos
The very fact that you took 5 days to get involved is part of the problem... it's really hard to address grievances to an absentee leader, and even more so when your usual response is so vague and short that it doesn't answer anything.

last edited by crazyguy_co
BB2 Champion Ladder Admin Team

quantity != quality.

True, but if you want real quality then CCL isn't the place to get it, a private scheduled league is. CCL is a halfway house for people who want convenience and competition without being regularly conceded to. It cannot be, and will not try to be, all things.

@dode74

As long as cash prizes are offered, then you can't call it the halfway house. It becomes the semi official tournament, and the rules do not reflect that. Again, the open encouragement of players to exploit bugs alone makes a mockery of the idea of "official" tournaments.

And lets be clear, buy advertising exactly how the bugs work on the forums, then refusing to do anything about them, you ARE not just allowing them, but encouraging them.

You can't have your cake and eat it to, you either allow coaches to concede to save their teams, without risking their ability to compete, or you find a solution to the griefing. Anything else is laziness.

Need more proof of laziness?

"In-game griefing includes using non-game mechanisms (such as continual use of the pause button) to harass your opponent. It will result in a ban. Again, please report such exploits to the admin team."

Pause button? the non existant pause button is against the rules? This is proof you all are being so lazy no one has updated the rules since BB1

last edited by crazyguy_co
BB2 Champion Ladder Admin Team

The rules reflect the tournament Focus and Cyanide want to run. If you're not happy with that play elsewhere. And it is a halfway house between quality and quantity, which is nothing to do with cash: you conflate the two things.

Reference the bugs, it's fair use if everyone knows about it, hence the openness about them. The fact is, though, that there are some which simply cannot be policed. Those are the ones which are left. You may not like that but that is the policy and if you think you can run an open league better then feel free to start one.

The "pause button" is what many people refer to as the menu screen. It is used to pause the game: hence the terminology.

The rules were updated from BB1: there were no rules for the official ladders in BB1. These rules were adapted from the FOL rules in BB1.

The menu screen doesn't pause the game for the opponent.

So your rules show that not only are you lazy, but you don't even know the game you claim to be moderating.

No wonder exploiting bugs is allowed and concedes aren't, the rules are based on pure ignorance! It all makes sense now!

And once again instead of admitting a problem, you lie to me. That rule is there because you apparently did a direct copy paste of the rules from the FoL, and didn't even bother to check if they needed updating. But somehow you all went with the lazy moderation answer on the "no exploiting" rule which, in the FOL, specifically referred to bugs...

Don't call on something you are making this open of a mockery of.

there were no rules for the official ladders in BB1

There were, about abusing the pause button, specifically, but also about a few other things

last edited by crazyguy_co

@crazyguy_co said in Champion Ladder grievance:

You can't have your cake and eat it to, you either allow coaches to concede to save their teams, without risking their ability to compete, or you find a solution to the griefing. Anything else is laziness.

You know what's really lazy and ignorant? The fact that jaywalking is illegal but winter isn't. I mean c'mon, winter is responsible for way, way more damage and loss of life than jaywalking, but they let winter happen every year while handing out tickets for the other thing. Either abolish winter or let me cross the street whenever I damned well please... you can't forbid one but not the other!

...or.. I guess they can, and our objection is very low on anyone's give-a-shit list. Excuse me, I need to go cry. If you need to borrow a cry-hankie, let me know cg.

yeah the author of bboracle that ruined the first game doesn't get to talk about "fair" without someone pointing it out. Hypocrite much?

Also I love how you are allowed to just insult cause you agree with the mods, but I have to be "civil"

Also, given that we have millions of ways we've invented to create buffers against winter, from clearing roads, to heated houses, your analogy sucks... by this logic, the mods should be finding ways to lessen the damage.

last edited by crazyguy_co

@crazyguy_co said in Champion Ladder grievance:

yeah the author of bboracle that ruined the first game doesn't get to talk about "fair" without someone pointing it out. Hypocrite much?

Don't worry, sweetums... everyone knows that your problems stem entirely from the universe being out to get you through the lazy and ignorant machinations of the rest of us. Though really, if there's one thing that BBOracle was not, it was lazy 😉

@crazyguy_co said in Champion Ladder grievance:

Also I love how you are allowed to just insult cause you agree with the mods, but I have to be "civil"

I know, right? I'm so complex... in one paragraph I ruined the game, in the next I'm a crusader for the status-quo enjoying special privileges for my unfailing support of the establishment.

@crazyguy_co said in Champion Ladder grievance:

Also, given that we have millions of ways we've invented to create buffers against winter, from clearing roads, to heated houses, your analogy sucks... by this logic, the mods should be finding ways to lessen the damage.

They did find a way to lessen the effects - they said "here's a bug some people use... our houserule is that it's ok to do during qualification matches but not during tournament matches"... because "mods" are not "devs" and have no control over the functioning of the program itself. Each of the people you're sitting there insulting is NOT a BB2 developer and has no ability to fix bugs in the program... so they figure out ways to roll with them.

Winter is still a bitch, and we still keep trying to think up new ways to deal with it... but it's not within our power to simply do away with it, so whining that it continues to exist is a waste of everyone's time. Spend your time thinking up new usable solutions instead of complaining that other people aren't thinking up new solutions fast enough for your liking.

If your issue is with the devs then speak to them... stop lashing out at everyone BUT them like some sort of pouty child.

Man you really are poison to this community, I thought they were exaggerating

last edited by crazyguy_co

@crazyguy_co said in Champion Ladder grievance:

Man you really are poison to this community, I thought they were exaggerating

Well hey, at least we're adding a new adjective to the pot... lazy, ignorant, and dishonest were getting a bit worn out. Perhaps if you weren't so hell-bent on attacking everyone you and the nameless "they" would have an easier time making a case for just how terrible I am.. 😉

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