[Xbox One] Champion Ladder Rules
Community Manager

Xbox One Champion Ladder Rules - Season X

Champion Ladder Rules PC-Mac / Champion Ladder Rules PS4

  • Fresh teams (max 1000 Team Value) with rookie players only may join the league.

  • Over 5 concessions by a coach in a season and you're booted for the remainder that season - that's a coach limit, not just a team limit. Get booted two seasons in a row and you're banned for the third season. Keep in mind that these 5 concessions are there to take technical issues into account - disconnections and crashes will count as concessions!

  • Champion Ladder season 10 ends 29 November 2017

  • At the end of a season, 32 coaches qualify for the seasonal playoffs ("Champion Cup"). The season will qualify the best team of each race + 8 "wild cards" for second best teams of each race (highest ranked race runner-up, until the 8th highest ranked race runner-up), with a maximum of 2 teamsfor each race.

  • If a coach qualified a top race team and a "wild card" team, the top race team is always the one qualified.

  • If a coach qualified more than one team as a top race team, the highest ranked team is qualified by default. You can contact our admin team to qualify the other team(s), but if they haven't received any message by the end of the season, ticket will be sent to default first choice.

  • The 32 coaches and their teams plays in a Knockout tournament with Cyans on the line (see below), as well as a unique skill awarded to the MVP of the winning team of the final of the tournament: Fan Favorite. This skill is described in LRB6 as follow:

Fan Favourite (Extraordinary)
The fans love seeing this player on the pitch so much that even the opposing fans cheer for your team. For each player with Fan Favourite on the pitch your team receives an additional +1 FAME modifier for any Kick-Off table results, but not for the Winnings roll.

Winning a Blood Bowl 2 official season will be the only way to get this skill.

  • 2800 Cyans and €950 are distributed in the Champion Cup, as follow:

    • 1st
      • €500
      • 500 Cyans
      • Fans Favorite skill for the player on your choice
    • 2nd
      • €250
      • 400 Cyans
    • 3rd & 4th
      • €100
      • 300 Cyans
    • 5th to 8th
      • 200 Cyans
    • 9th to 16th
      • 100 Cyans
    • 17th to 32th
      • 50 Cyans
  • The teams and leaderboard reset every season.

  • Use of exploits will result in a ban. Please report the use of any exploits by PM to the admin team.

  • In-game griefing includes using non-game mechanisms (such as continual use of the pause button) to harass your opponent. It will result in a ban. Again, please report such exploits to the admin team.

  • To be absolutely clear, fouling is allowed at any time you are allowed to do so. So is stalling (i.e. clock management). These are not exploits, or considered unsportsmanlike in this league.

  • Kids play this game too, so bear that in mind when making your team. Your team may be ejected from the league if the team name and/or player names are considered offensive by the admin team and/or Focus/Cyanide.

  • If you encounter what you judge to be bad behaviour in the chat, you can contact Netheos directly on this forum by private message. Please send a description of the issue and any screenshots or files which might help to understand the case. It doesn't necessarily mean that we'll act against the coach you reported, but we'll look into the issue.

The above list is subject to change, particularly between seasons.

The admin team consists of:

  • Tizzle Bizzell
  • Engel Evilstein
  • SLHunterUSA
  • Ronaldbeanio
  • PatGhostwalker
  • UndockedDeer0

The moderators can be contacted by PM on these forums.

Focus Home Interactive & Cyanide Studio

last edited by Netheos

In my opinion next season should extend the concessions on Xbox. The reconnect time is only 2 min and there are some screen bugs that could break the game. At this moment i´m top1 and i have 4 concessions for these reasons, if i get another one i´ll be forced to stop playing until the playoffs.

I have 4 big complaints about this as a new player on console. I can't believe I bothered to make an account just to complain about these things, but because a player admin decided to private message me on Xbox I've decided to point them out. Up until yesterday I was happy with the game. Now I'm a bit disappointed since I have learned more about the game as a whole. Here are my concerns and I hope you'll take the time to read and reply.

#1. Why isn't this information IN THE GAME? The current game guide only talks about NAF Official competitions and the "Perpetual Cyanide League: the main league in the game". There's literally no rules regarding this what so ever on the current build nor is it discussed in the campaign tutorial or prior to joining a ladder. IN FACT the closest thing I could find in game was the 1 time EULA when the game first starts which NEVER shows up again and the tiny headliner to the ladders when joining. In order to read it I have to leave the game and go to the game's website. This is not something that should be part of a console game. Put your rules IN THE GAME. Put your community hubs IN THE GAME. I can't access them from my console if they're not IN THE GAME. Most exclusively console players do not care for online forums.

#2. And this is the big one. The player admin informed me that the reason why concedes are currently regulated is due to overwhelming request by the community and supported that claim by saying that most games weren't being finished. Which is absolutely wrong. Conceded matches by definition ARE FINISHED. A match doesn't have to and shouldn't have to always reach 32 turns to be considered finished. Furthermore this game is 1v1 in every aspect so no teammates are harmed by the concession. There is even a reward for making your opponent concede! So why are concessions considered negative? They literally do nothing to impact the game negatively. The worst case scenario is SPP boosting which is completely negated by the RANDOM matchmaking. In fact concessions HELP the game by providing a more timely game and help to encourage competitive play even among the newer players. One of the BIGGEST issues with BB2 is that the player count is so small on console and the games take AT LEAST an hour to finish. 3x16x2 = 96 minutes per game. At best you're looking at 1 minute per turn and that's still 32 minutes. This isn't including the search times which I've seen at 300 seconds. 300 seconds is 5 minutes. That's not including the match join resets that make that 5 minutes turn into 15 minutes.

To further prove my point consider this : The way to win and climb through the game is SPP. The more SPP you earn per match the faster you climb because you can improve your team. IF a player concedes a match then that player is granting their opponent an extra 5 SPP at NO FURTHER COST to their team or the opponents team. WHY WOULD ANYONE ON THE WINNING TEAM OPPOSE THIS?!?! It is literally almost IMPOSSIBLE to earn 5 SPP in a match for a single player if both teams are balanced without farming touchdowns and killing off their opponents entire team. If we're considering the integrity of the game would it make more sense for a player to have to sit through watching his entire team be killed for a massive 22 - 32 SPP boost all the while their opponent is stacking 3 SPP from touchdowns and 1 SPP from passes for 32 turns or would it make more sense to grant the 5 SPP and allow the losing player to find an opponent more befitting to their TV? How often are you guys rolling 10-12's on your injury rolls that actually inflict a casualty?! As soon as a player's unit dies that's it. They're dead. You can't disconnect from a game to save your players anymore so it makes no sense why concedes are demonized. And anyone can die at any moment. Stacking 8 of your opponents team as casualties or kills onto your massive claw, mighty blow, and pile on minotaur just to have him die to a failed going for it roll and then be awarded MVP and tell me how much sense that makes for either team. Concedes balance the SPP gains and losses and give players more opportunities to control a hopeless situation. That's to say that it makes literally no sense to play a losing game because there's no chance to earn SPP. Concedes should not be regulated by number at the very least, but instead by individual case scenarios or not at all.

Banning players with poor internet stability is also quite silly. Poor internet comes and goes everywhere. By refusing to allow those around the world with less than perfect connections from participating in what is essentially Ranked Mode you're limiting the player count even more. Players with poor internet are treated the same way the concedes would be treated due to players not being able to save their teams by disconnecting on a death roll. And the winning team gets a 5 SPP bonus just like if the losing team had conceded. This doesn't hurt the integrity of the game at all. It only hurts those who concede and disconnect. What should be monitored for is DDos, booters, and illegitimate trades. And of course exploits like glitches or cheats.

#2.2 TV inconsistency is what makes players concede. There's literally only so much you can do with petty cash. Most star players require 200k in petty cash. with 500k max petty cash allotted you can MAYBE get 2 star players and an apothecary or something. In this game none of those things matter when you're down 3 to 0 with half of your team on the gurney. It's made even worse by the fact that you can LOSE MVP SPP TO THE STAR PLAYER OR DEAD PLAYERS. You're literally forcing someone to play a new team every time they're wiped by a larger team. which just grows the SPP gap that much more between losers and CPOMB builds. Deaths are part of the game, but the purpose of the concede feature was to allow players to cut their loses. To completely refuse to let players concede in a tournament makes the game 1 sided. Just as stalling is a valid tactic, and murdering your entire enemy team is a valid tactic, conceding should always be an option. Team value is bad enough prior to a match, but at least you get petty cash. ONCE THE GAME STARTS, however, team value changes drastically at each block. As soon as your team loses a player to a death or an injury you could drop in team value by several hundred points. With no re-rolls, no apothecaries, no bribes, no magic, no star players, etc. why would anyone or should anyone be forced to fight a losing battle?

#3 Why are regular players allowed to volunteer to host and administer "official" competitions? Doesn't that ruin the integrity of the competition entirely? If there is only 1 Official Championship and 1 Official Ladder why isn't the job given to someone or a team of people who can be held accountable? At best the EULA says that they must administer the competition in an honest manner, but goes into little to no detail after that and the entire service is up in the air for who to blame if anything happens.

#4 The admin informed me that concedes were also added because money is involved in competitions. If that's true then why was there no mention of the money prize anywhere in the game. Certain places can't participate in online prize pool competitions and I never once saw a terms and conditions form in game.

In my opinion (and that's all it is is an opinion) the fact that players can have more than 1 team in a single championship at a time is an issue. I think the new teams only function is a good idea. I also agree with not having a market at the end of the season. I don't agree with the limited number of concedes, the choice to ban players from enjoying the game due to their internet stability, nor do I agree with the amount of information catered to PC users or the involvement of "euros" to reward champion winners. cyans sure. exclusive game content sure, but not real money. Please consider holding those types of tournaments outside of the blood bowl 2 game at an esports competition or something. There's nothing wrong with sweepstakes, but when it influences a game's integrity then I'm against it.

Thank you for taking the time to read my rant and please understand it's with good intentions. Open ladder does not give the satisfaction of Championship ladder and it doesn't reset teams. I want to play an official ladder that resets teams per season and doesn't prevent concedes. Making it so that players can't use 2 or more teams in a championship ladder at the same time would be great as well.

BB2 Champion Ladder Admin Team

Hi, I'm dode and I and a volunteer who helps run the CCL for PC and provide the data from the servers for the admins for all leagues. Hopefully I can answer a few of your questions.

  1. Yep, we'd love it to be in the game. Unfortunately this type of league was a later addition rather than built in and UI changes are "difficult". There is a link to the rules in the game but it is not the easiest as it doesn't come up on registration.

  2. Conceded games mean riskless wins, and that's one issue. It encourages a playstyle which results in your opponent conceding, reducing the risk to your team. If you want to play with concessions there is the Open Ladder to play in.
    You say that SPP is the goal, but in the Champion Ladder it's not: winning the match is the goal.
    Internet stability is allowed for with the fact that you can concede/disconnect more than once in a season.
    We do monitor for server issues, win trading, and any glitches or cheats. Some we can do something about (there were server issues last season which we had to manually account for) and some we simply cannot (such as the oft-mentioned TD/foul issue).
    So you're clear on the scale of the problem, in Open Ladder on PC over half the games end in concession, and many of them in the first few minutes. The desire for a disincentive to concede was added for several reasons: first, TT has a rule which results in you potentially losing players if you concede; second, when you start a match it is reasonable to expect that you will finish it (i.e. go to 16 turns). Many (and I do mean a considerable number) of our players are somewhat older than your average gamer since BB is mostly a 90s board game, and time is an important resource. Being able to set aside 90-120 minutes to play only to have your opponent dip out because they rolled a 1 30 minutes in is frustrating at the very least. This is not something new in BB2: in BB1 the same issue happened, and I took it upon myself to start a private open league (nothing official) called Forum Open League in which concessions were punished with a ban for the next season. It was extremely successful, and was of similar size to the official matchmaking league in terms of play rates and the teams involved. That same desire was mooted for BB2 but the tools (namely server data access) were not available to me to make it happen. Cyanide subsequently made the tools available and CCL was born from that. So yes, the desire is there from a lot of people for exactly this sort of league.

2.2. TV inconsistency is due to a lack of teams rather than anything else. There is a real lack of players, particularly for the console leagues, and to be perfectly honest it makes little difference how matchmaking happens when there are only two teams looking for a match, which is the case much of the time in PS4/XB1.

  1. Everything is overseen by Focus. All decisions are posted either here in the forums or on our discord channel. As such oversight is from Focus. The fact is that we largely do the gruntwork: I get the data and parse it (and it can be checked by Focus and by players using goblinspy) and the other admins deal with communication and removal of teams where appropriate. We also deal with cases where moderation is required due to behaviour, but anything which is even remotely questionable goes directly to Focus for them to deal with.

  2. Concedes were not added due to money prizes. Money was a later addition and the original intent was for a league in which players could reasonably expect to complete a game of Blood Bowl, as I said above.

Regarding "more than one team", anything which reduces play rates (and stopping people from playing how they want to will do that) exacerbates other issues such as effective matching.

I understand not everything is how you would want it, and tbh not everything is how I would want it either. But there are issues which necessitate certain decisions are made, and needs which are being met by this league, and I hope you understand some of them a little better now. If it still doesn't work for you and you think you can make it work better then you are, ofc, free to start your own league. Data is available from GoblinSpy (click "competition" and you can see the other leagues are there) so you can monitor your league for people playing more than one team, and I wish you luck with it should you choose that route.

@dode74

Thanks for the reply. I had a long reply typed up, but I realized that regardless of facts and statistics even if I made a valid point it'd just be ignored under the premise of agreeing to disagree. So I'll keep it short minus the TV rant.

  1. That's what sequels are for. Blood Bowl Legendary edition is coming out. It should have been adjusted.

  2. I disagree with pretty much everything in this part. I played table top games in the 90's and your description is erroneous. Looking at it through the eyes of someone who sets aside 1:30 to play that person would also have friends to join them for their session that aren't going to "dip". Playing with strangers online isn't the same thing as inviting friends over for game night. Playing online is more akin to going to Friday night magic and playing in a community tournament. You have no idea how long it will take and you have no clue who any of the people are. When your turn happens you play. You sit down and within 3 turns your opponent could surrender or you could have a really strong opponent and get steam rollered. It could go on for hours simply because both players have really well built decks.

2.2 TV inconsistency is more or less caused by the value of skills not being individualized. Lacking number of players is a secondary issue. When all players are taking dodge and block to negate 2 of the dice rolls there's little room left for tactics. Here is a chart straight from the bb website for visual representation

Some of the things that influence Team Value:

Players = 1 thousandth of their cost
Then when they go up a level:
20 for each skill of normal category
30 for each skill of double category
30 for each new point of MV or AR
40 for each new point of d'AG
50 for each new point of ST
Re-rolls = 1 thousandth of their cost added to the TV
Fan Factor = 10 points each
Apothicary = 50 points
Cheerleaders = 10 points each
Assistant Coaches = 10 points each

tomb guardians for example are 100000 gold have 5st 1ag 9av and 4ma and they start with decay and regenerate. 5x50 = 250. 30x4=120. 9x30=270. 1x40=40. 250+120+270+40=680. 680*1000= 680,000 2 skills = +40 to +60 unless 1 is negative which it is. so decay apparently makes tomb guardians more in line with a dark elf blitzer who has 7ma 3st 4ag and 8av and the block ability since they both cost the same in gold.

7x30=210
3x50=150
4x30=120
8x30=240
which equals 720. so 720,000 gold. block is one of the most important skills in the game with it's effects taking place immediately and no negative skills. doubles on a dark elf blitzer gets him passing and strength skill, but the only way to get more strength is with a 12. that's 1 in 36 rolls and he has to do it twice. on the other hand a tomb guardian can roll doubles 1 time and get block. doubles is 1 in 6. armor and strength are WAY more useful in this game than agility or movement. With 12 armor (which isn't possible) a player can completely negate 97% of the armor rolls against them.

this shear amount of difference is why TV is so blown out of whack. It needs to be properly adjusted to weigh each perk and each stat point. a strength 5 stat point should not provide the exact same TV as a strength 6 stat point or a strength 4 stat point. Creating teams that are tailored specifically for different play styles is great, but if we're going to judge a team on a value like TV it needs to be directly proportional to everything else. and it's not. Skills and individual level ups need to be weighed individually and when they are a truly balanced game will emerge. Not the current broad strokes the plague the game currently. If the value of block is 10 and the value of mighty blow is 10 and the value of mutations is roughly 100 in total when you lock a player out of mutations subtract 100 from his overall value and add in the values of each skill they regularly have access to and the skills they have access to on doubles you'll divide by 6 and add those in then add in level 1 stats, level 2 stats, level 3 stats so on and so forth based on their active value. if strength 1 is 25 then strength 2 would be 50 then strength 3 would be something like 65 then strength 4 would be 80 then strength 5 would be 90 and strength 6 would be 100 strength 7 would be 105 and strength 8 would be 110 etc. and when all teams are equal then the game is balanced.

Team gold should ALWAYS be part of the TV. Why is it only after 150,000 that gold counts? 150,000 gold can buy a huge amount of inducements. Pretty much everything except halfling rerolls and a few star players. A wizard, or 2 bloodweiser babes, or an apothecary and a bloodweiser babe. Any mercenary for the most part as well. same thing with home advantage stadiums. why it's not is beyond my grasp.

  1. "Either here in the forums or on our discord channel" - not psn or xbox live. There's an xbox live game hub and it rarely gets updated at all. The last post was from february when khemri was released. In other words the game wasn't designed with console in mind. That still didn't address my point about the illegitimacy of active participants being allowed to administrate a championship. Most competitions prevent admins from taking part in their own competitions as it's widely accepted as a conflict of interest. Focus needs to make Focus bots to administer the games or automate the system.

  2. A game of blood bowl IS complete when one player concedes. The whole point of a blood bowl match is to win the game and if a player concedes you've won the game. If it takes 4 minutes or it takes 4 hours a win is a win. I've never once heard of anyone complaining that their call of duty team won too quickly. Players should be grateful when an opponent concedes due to the fact that they now have chance to play a second match.

I made my own league, but it's not an official league and the majority of the player base refuses to play anything that isn't official. when a new player starts up blood bowl for the first time and tries to go into a match 3 things are going to happen. 1 they're going to get confused by the outdated UI, 2 they're going to ask their friends or look up how to play online, and 3 they're going to join Cabalvision Official because it's got 11k teams and all of the others are between 1200 and 0. My leagues name is Ironman Blood Bowl. Feel free to look at it. I will likely delete it soon, but I think this format is the correct format.

@wydyadoit said in [Xbox One] Champion Ladder Rules:

Skills and individual level ups need to be weighed individually and when they are a truly balanced game will emerge.

There are two things wrong with this rather facile solution.

First, nobody knows the "right" weighting for every single contributor to TV... any alterations made would be pure guesswork that might make things better or might make things worse, and the only way to know which had happened would be to have people play a few thousand games then analyze the effect statistically.... then guess more and repeat.. and repeat...and repeat.

Second, the difference between two teams TV only has an effect on the inducements the underdog is given, and inducements are deliberately overpriced... which means they deliberately fail to bridge the gap between the two teams. To that end, if we're looking for superior balance it's not about more accurate TV, it's about inducement pools that actually DO balance out the two teams in the match.

We already know how to balance matches without years guesswork (full TVPlus), there's just endless vocal resistance to doing so.

@wydyadoit said in [Xbox One] Champion Ladder Rules:

Lacking number of players is a secondary issue.

Barring implementing proper and full match balancing low population is 100% the primary issue that open play faces. The game cannot magically create new people for you to play against, so it doesn't matter how accurate TV is - it can only match you with people who are there to match you with. If the TV differences are high then that's the way the cookie crumbles. Unless the rating differences create an inducement pool that balances out the match, the absolutely primary problem is low population.

@wydyadoit said in [Xbox One] Champion Ladder Rules:

Team gold should ALWAYS be part of the TV.

It should never be part of TV, actually. Gold in your treasury does not contribute to your ability to win a match so including it in your TV when it is not being used is simply making TV less accurate. What should be counted in TV for a given match is any gold you add to petty cash, which means any gold you add to your inducement pool. In CRP this was already the case... if you added gold to your inducements for the match it altered your TV for that match prior to calculating how much "free" inducement gold was given to the underdog.

In BB2 a supposedly "streamlined" version of the bank rules incorrectly allows either side to add up to 150k of their treasury to the match without altering the TV for that match. That has been fixed in BB2:LE. That said, it still counts treasury in excess of 150k as TV, which, as I said, makes TV increasingly inaccurate as a result.

@wydyadoit said in [Xbox One] Champion Ladder Rules:

Players should be grateful when an opponent concedes due to the fact that they now have chance to play a second match.

That's a bit like saying men should be grateful for premature ejaculation. While everybody wants to win, I think most people also want to play the game, which is something they don't really get a chance to do when the opponent quits on them.

BB2 Champion Ladder Admin Team

@wydyadoit

  1. Maybe, but they didn't.

  2. You can disagree all you like, but I've been running large matchmaking leagues since 2010 when BB:LE was released (the first one). There are places to play where you can do your "Friday night magic" if you want, but CCL isn't it. Just because it's what you want doesn't make it what everyone wants.

2.2 There are a lot of reasons for TV inconsistency, but the fact is that TV isn't a great indicator of the power of the team. This is easily demonstrable through looking at the value of Mighty Blow or Catch on an Orc Blitzer. The former is cheaper than the latter but will be far more useful. Another simple example is Tackle: priceless vs a team with a few Dodge players, worthless vs a team with none.
Your Tomb Guardian example seems to be an attempt to equate stats/skills on a starting player with earned stats/skills. That's not how it works. There is a guide to player creation which was used by the BBRC which might help you with this.
Gold used on the pitch (i.e. to buy inducements) is what should be counted towards TV since the intent was to equalise that (see LRB6 petty cash rules). The bank rule as it stands was intended to penalise people for hoarding lots of gold. YMMV as to whether that is worthwhile or it works, but that's what it is for.

  1. I am the one who collates the data and gives the details of who to ban. I don't play in CCL on any platform for exactly the reason you give: conflict of interest. Even then Focus have oversight on everything. Personally I'd love it if it was all automated, but it's not. I'm actually learning PHP in order to try to automate the process.
    You have access to discord either via a mobile app or via PC. I'm assuming you own a mobile phone since you own an XBox - not an unreasonable assumption. Beyond that a 2 second google search for Xbox discord brought up Discord UWP as an option worth looking at. The PSN and XBox Live stuff can, I believe, only be done by Focus.

  2. This is not Call of Duty. Nor does a concession automatically allow a second match: a concession on T6, for example, pretty much precludes a second match due to time constraints. Regardless, you're missing the point: the whole point of a Blood Bowl match is not only to win the match, but to play the game.

Good luck with your league. I disagree that it is the correct format, and I suspect plenty of others do too.

I think that the only way to grow up the population is through tournament prizes and the crossplay but I guess this doesn`t depend only on focus. The season format is really cool and its continuous, i liked the World Championship too but the CCL stimulate the permanent competition.

BB2 Champion Ladder Admin Team

Crossplay would be a real boost, particularly for the console players.

@VoodooMike

the value of skills will change and therefore need to constantly be realigned if the game is to grow to add more and more races so in truth there is no static value to any one skill, but stats on the other hand are flat improvements to dice rolls. All dice rolls use a 6 sided or multiple 6 sided dice (not including the second part of the injury roll or the scatter die which uses an 8 sided die). Therefore a value can be placed upon all stats. skill value can then be estimated based on how much they modify those dice rolls. optional additions like re-rolls and stadiums just need to be balanced all-around as an independent value. If everyone is paying the same price for the same outcome even if it's through different means then it's balanced. So yes Inducements need to be balanced as well.

You can't get players to play a game that is limiting its target audience to pc gaming tabletop players who already know how to play. Until gamepass I'd never even heard of this game. That's an issue. It's a secondary issue because new players don't feel the game is balanced or fair. I've recommended this game to several friends and family and all have said the same thing. It's too much about luck and not enough about skill, the matches take too long, and matches are often horribly one-sided. Allowing concedes and more information in the game would be a start in the right direction. Adding in a community feed would help inform players about the game's status. Currently there's "campaign", "join a league", "friendly match", "team and league management", "cabal tv", "settings", and "shop". Console players and average gamers are going to see just campaign and think the game is single player only. Multiplayer is a very important word. Online is a very important word. Neither are used in the opening menu and that makes it harder to navigate. What's more after selecting play in league the player is left to discover where the official league is because they're not separated into public and private or player hosted or ranked and unranked. The entire rule book for this game is online only. Once again a game that caters to PC users is going to leave a sour taste in new console players mouths. That guide could have just as easily been put into the game and would have made a lot of new players happy. There are literally zero informational text explanations for any of the adjustments that can be made to the things in the options menu or league management. So player lacking is a secondary issue. you can't draw in fans without a welcoming experience.

If gold can buy inducements and extra players then it should be included in the TV. otherwise gold can be manipulated because it's circumstantial TV. The TV gained from gold is not representative because the things that can be purchased with it are not on equal terms. Rerolls for different teams have differing costs and so on and so forth. If gold hasn't been spent prior to Inducements that's an unaccounted for player or wizard that has the potential to make the game 1 sided.

Either way a player should have 2 team values. 1 away and 1 home. If a player isn't playing home his team value should represent not playing home. Gold that isn't spent during Inducements is no different from having a number 12 backup bench warmer that never sets foot on the field - which is still accounted for in TV. Loner stats only affect re-rolls and Inducements are the only way to get certain benefits, but nothing can prevent home team advantage.

What do you mean by endless vocal resistance? As in a large number of players don't want the game to be balanced? I could see that. Changing up old rules for balance that has yet to be proven will always come with resistance. Fear of the unknown is very common and the process to balance something as complex as blood bowl takes quite a bit of numerical data. It's simple, but not so simple that just anyone could do it. Even so it takes a lot of number crunching and most of the work requires probability functions. Beyond that it's fun in the current format if you don't delve too deeply into the system and I think that fun is what players want to protect.

And finally - while this analogy is inappropriate it's also more or less misleading. The man who ejaculates would be the player who concedes because they're finished with the match and while they may have not gotten the outcome they wanted they are now free to clean up the mess and start over. Their partner would be the player who wins, but is left with a feeling of "is that it?" The only reason why the player who prematurely ejaculates would feel bad is because their partner is constantly nagging them for not providing the experience they wanted which in the end is going to lead to bigger relationship problems and likely a divorce or break up. No one is going to want to play with nagging nymphos who are too hard to satisfy and won't give newcomers a chance to warm up and get used to the field other than other nagging nymphos who've been on the field for years and are getting desperate. So yes, I think players should be happy that someone played with them even if it's only for just a few minutes.

@Drikk said in [Xbox One] Champion Ladder Rules:

I think that the only way to grow up the population is through tournament prizes and the crossplay but I guess this doesn`t depend only on focus. The season format is really cool and its continuous, i liked the World Championship too but the CCL stimulate the permanent competition.

That and more advertising on console ends. I literally never once saw anything about the game until game pass. It's a great game, but with a lot of the focus on PC. If cross play were to be a thing it'd maybe grow to levels of rocket league, but even then without proper advertisements and consideration for console players there's no hope to grow the audience. It's just too exclusive. As stated in another of my replies gamers on console want their information on console. Consoles are usually placed in the living room or bedroom with a TV and a couch or bed for comfortable seating. Players aren't going to want to have to get up and find their laptop or go to their computer to figure out how play a game. They'll struggle through it, but most will give up and play something else. If it's on the website or there's an app that does little for the console player who just wants to be able to play a game with a controller, a tv, an internet connection, a console, and an online subscription. If you're on PC though all you have to do is ALT TAB and open up a web browser. If you have multiple monitors then it's even easier because you can just leave it open on another screen. TV's and consoles can't do that and shouldn't do that. Discord is a PC gamer service. Forums are PC gaming communities for the most part. I've rarely ever seen any developers take advantage of the club system on xbox apart from microsoft exclusive studios. I can't speak for psn because my brother is the ps player, but I think sony has openly refused crossplay with microsoft in regards to minecraft. And steam competes with windows 10. But it couldn't hurt.

@wydyadoit said in [Xbox One] Champion Ladder Rules:

the value of skills will change and therefore need to constantly be realigned if the game is to grow to add more and more races so in truth there is no static value to any one skill, but stats on the other hand are flat improvements to dice rolls. All dice rolls use a 6 sided or multiple 6 sided dice (not including the second part of the injury roll or the scatter die which uses an 8 sided die). Therefore a value can be placed upon all stats. skill value can then be estimated based on how much they modify those dice rolls. optional additions like re-rolls and stadiums just need to be balanced all-around as an independent value. If everyone is paying the same price for the same outcome even if it's through different means then it's balanced. So yes Inducements need to be balanced as well.

Haha, well hey, you should get right on that! Don't forget that you'll also need to define a metric by which the effects of any changes can be determined... and convince Cyanide/Focus that your proposed changes accurately reflect "balance", and that they should go with your idea in spite of the throngs of players declaring that game balance is the devil's sex lube.

As I said before, we know how we could balance things without all that guesswork... without altering the value of skills and stats or even the cost of inducements. Cyanide/Focus are too worried about the vocal opposition to give it a go, so.. don't count on your less reliable, more complex method gaining much ground.

@wydyadoit said in [Xbox One] Champion Ladder Rules:

You can't get players to play a game that is limiting its target audience to pc gaming tabletop players who already know how to play.

Sure you can... what you can't do is get them to stay if they don't enjoy it. It's easy to get people to try games.

@wydyadoit said in [Xbox One] Champion Ladder Rules:

Fear of the unknown is very common and the process to balance something as complex as blood bowl takes quite a bit of numerical data. It's simple, but not so simple that just anyone could do it.

Heh, as I say... give it a try sometime. It's easy to wave your hands around and say "it's easy in my head, so I'm sure it's easy in real life".

@wydyadoit said in [Xbox One] Champion Ladder Rules:

So yes, I think players should be happy that someone played with them even if it's only for just a few minutes.

Well, they're sufficiently not satisfied that there's a popular alternative to COL that kicks people out for continuous concession. Folks are able to choose how happy they want to be with concession by playing in the league that best suits them.

@VoodooMike

I'll consider writing up balanced values sometime and post them if I complete it. Though, I will likely take my time since I'm neither being paid nor will it likely be accepted and will likely receive harsh criticism regardless of accuracy. If I find time I will post it with a tag for you. I have college courses this fall and so I will be heavily loaded with work, but I'm doing game design so it will be a cool side project to undertake. If I'm successful that would be neat. I'll need to research a lot of information because the game is digital and so a lot of parts are hidden such as the code for how dice rolls work in order to achieve artificial randomness.

Unlimited concedes would be a disaster for CCL.

Kill-teams are already arguably too powerful (pls nerf PO!) and unlimited concedes would just see power levelled Chaos teams left, right and centre. Not fun.

As for balance... forget about it... if you want a balanced game maybe BB isn't for you... just accept the craziness it's all part of the fun ;-)

A bigger player base would be great - but I don't want my Blood Bowl watered down either. Blood Bowl is a niche game with a dedicated, if small, fan base -- many of whom have been playing since the original tabletop days, and I'm sure will still be playing in 20 years' time (if we make it that long lard be praised).

Let's see how many people are still playing rocket league in 20 years...

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