Map Makers

first i would like to say thank you for the work you do. there is some very nice maps out there and only see things getting better.

however i have been noticing that a good amount of maps being made seem to happen to have the same vehicles (usually the same kinds of vehicles by select mod builders) used for building and testing these maps. i ask that people making maps to please use a variety of vehicles when testing and building. i fear if people are generally using the same basic vehicles all the time then maps will become a bit too tailored for those certain vehicles. to some this may seem like a useless request, i for one do not think it is.

last edited by 8up local

First I want to say I'm not what I would call a "map maker". I'm a wannabe. I haven't even finished my first map yet. I'm over half way done with it though. So maybe when/if I finish it, I'll reconsider allowing myself that title.

That said, I do understand what you're trying to say. And I also want to say that it's something that I've kept in mind during the entire process of making my map. But I've found it very hard to achieve that kind of balance. Making things easy enough for less capable vehicles almost invariably makes them too easy for more capable vehicles. I'm not saying it can't be done. Just that it's very difficult to do. To say the least. In fact, I believe I've been able to do it about as well as it can be done. But it's been no simple task.

I also think the idea in general, of tailoring a map to any type of vehicle, is sort of flawed. From a more realistic stand point that is. In reality the terrain is what it is. And you build/tailor the vehicle to suit the terrain. Not vice versa. Typically. But this isn't reality. It's a game. Vehicles are prebuilt and chosen from a list. And it takes away from the playability of the game if the player is limited in number of vehicles on the list that are suitable for it. I get that. Everybody wants to drive what they want to drive. And that differs per individual.

Oh BTW, it's way off topic, but I just wanted to say thanks for the tip on using paint dot net to mod those texture files. I've found it very useful.

last edited by MudHappy

@mudhappy right it is not so much making it easy for every vehicle, but more just not so difficult that only certain vehicles can handle it. i do like the challenge of using stock vehicles on mod maps, but when it becomes a total winchfest for almost any vehicle on most mod maps then i feel things could be tamed down just a touch or at the very least have an alternative, but longer route for these very difficult sections. now this can go both ways also. i have seen many maps made that people thought was really difficult, only then to have someone like me get across these maps with a stock vehicle which people thought would be impossible.

i know this can be a very opinionated subject, especially when it comes to trail/crawling maps. still though a map can be difficult, just when testing a map i feel there really should be a decent variety of vehicles used in making and testing maps.

Community Moderator - Spintires

I am afraid that you are hitting problem of balance in general.
Stock truck are actually pretty capable cars on their own, but many MOD vehicles are pretty much OP. Speaking specially (but not entirelly) about crawling buggies of many sorts.
And when one want to make challenging map for OP vehicle, he inevitably ends up with map that is way too much difficult for stock trucks. And "way too much difficult" is still better from possible options.
I think it is good to mentioned this issue, but in the end you just have to search for maps those suits you and your style.

Just an idea: A ST it was possible to keep some starting vehicles locked.
If a map maker wants you to start map with some specific car, then OK, let the rest locked somewhere else, or damaged totally, so garage has to be unlocked, utility set up, get back to trucks...
Let players deserve those trucks a bit 🙂

@sodoma right, keeping balance is a main key of course. also correct about stock vehicles being more capable than some people realize. while a lot of vehicles are OP imo, some are not that far off from where they should be really. now i am speaking of vehicles i use which can make for a biased opinion, but still though i am not asking for a total compromise, just asking people making maps to remember to consider more variety. i do not expect to take a loaded ural across a crawling map with any ease, but i also do not expect to have to winch the whole time.

as a reminder, i am not telling anyone how to make their maps, i am just reminding people that there are more than just certain specific vehicles out there and to please keep that in mind when building maps.

I tend to design my maps around the types of vehicles I like to drive and the types of environments I like to drive them in. Call me selfish in that approach, but as mentioned above what might be impossible in one truck might be a cakewalk in another...
I try not to make my trucks OP because if I can just slam over any obstacle imaginable it's not much fun, no challenge...

Community Moderator - Spintires

@8up-local
I think this is good way to talk about it, so somebody (me included) can go thru it and take some ideas into consideration, when map making time comes. Take this as a "brainstorming for map makers"

In the end, it is problematic in general, if you make a map, that is designed specifically for THAT vehicle.
Yes, if you are also a MODder and came up with some "sort of new mechanic", you kind a have to design map for it, but replayability might be a problem.
But speaking of level of difficulty of terrain (so many "ofs", is it correct? 🙂 ) I, personally, am for "just piece of landscape with some reasonable routes" rather than "set of obstacles on route going thru map unreasonably". And landscape have areas easy to pass and areas almost unpassable, that's natural.

Speaking of routes, I've met this many times already:
Route is there, where it is the easiest to go thru. Solid surface everywhere around a route with five feets deep mud is a bit silly idea 🙂

@Sodoma
Made that mistake with my first map... Stuck in the mud? Leave the designated trail and it's firm ground again lol
Subsequent maps have been "build the terrain first, then find challenging/interesting routes through that terrain" which allows much more versatility for a greater range of vehicles. I enjoy trailing maps, but taking a random turn into the bushes off the trail can sometimes turn into quite an adventure so I try to examine my maps from a more overall perspective instead of just sticking some rocks along the trail like I did before...

last edited by Mexican_420
Community Moderator - Spintires

@mexican_420
That is one of things, that make differencxe between map and good map.
But don't be sad about it, I've made it as well 😄

Well I'm working on my third map now. I felt I rushed my second one a bit more than I should. I do tend to build my trails for the shorter wheelbased vehicles so thanks for the reminder 8up. I've been lucky to get some good feedback on my maps which I've been using to try to continually improve my builds. My new map now has 3 routes that support long log hauls as well as a few that will probably only work with medium logs (tested). I'm taking my time with this one a bit more, so hopefully it will be a more well rounded.

@pix3lmonkey you bring up a small point i forgot to mention that goes along with the variety of vehicles, which is different wheel bases.

btw the medium log loads are the hardest ones to do imo. because the trailer has a "loose" connection if you will, since it has a pintle hook type of connection that can move around side to side and up/down a bit. the long log trailer connection is more fixed to one spot that hinges around a single point basicly.

last edited by 8up local

I'm on my first trail map. Some pics I've seen of maps coming are absolutely gorgeous, wish I had their artistic talent, it's amazing to see. If you are wheeling in RL going down a straight path in the woods for 20 min it's a blast, because your there actually doing it, but in game this gets boring real fast. Most MOD vehicles are OP. I know they try to keep it real, but the trucks and drivers will always be better and can do more then there RL counterparts, because it's a game. So, my map could be a RL location but my trails are made for extreme challenge and game fun, not RL realism. As map makers, we all have are own style of doing things and this benefits all players.

last edited by Guest

@fearwheels right, everyone is different and has different ideas of what they feel a map should be for them. just it is a good idea to keep the vehicles varied and more than just a few select trucks most the time. like i have said you fellas are doing good and i am not trying to tell anyone how they should build their maps. i just wanted to put the idea out for you map makers to keep in the back of your mind when building. other side of the coin is it might also make you think a bit differently when making a map and possibly come up with even more or different ideas when you use lesser/greater vehicles when testing and building.

@8up-local Yes, I understand what your saying, but now I'm making a map for the lesser/greater vehicles, which is not what most use. When it comes to trails maps most use the mod trucks they like, the ones that do well on trails because they are fun to drive.(yes the OP ones) We would run the risk of the map being called to easy or even worse boring. I guess a Trail map that would have several trails but with different levels of difficulty like beginner, intermediate, expert, could be done. That could be a way to keep all happy.

@fearwheels quite true, keeping everyone happy is hard to do for sure. a map with multiple trails of varying difficultly is one way and not that hard to do, it is just not all that convenient sometimes. also not every trail needs alternate routes. i just wanted to ask you fellas to try and use more than one certain type of vehicle and or mod builders vehicles. now if someone was to make say a dedicated crawler type map then yeah use trail/crawler types of vehicles and the same for a logging or double duty type maps. i like to think of it as "build the map you are wanting, just keep in mind people may want to use other vehicles for either more or less of a challenge", so maybe a section that has say only one line through can be done (relatively speaking) with varied trucks. another point is i do not think maps should be made to where you can just "walk" through them easily. there should be places that no matter what, most vehicles will have to winch or go around, but this is all up to you the map makers to decide and figure out what balance of all this works for you and your style of map making.

Good topic as I am someone who likes oddball vehicles that are much less capable on the trail. Seems like a perfect spot to plug a map I made for those vehicles haha. I used a UAZ 469 to test all the trails in both directions so it's super easy. http://dl-file.com/cuxjryark2ag/saranac.7z.html Another thing that would be helpful, is for mapmakers to be a little more descriptive as to what type of vehicles are most appropriate for their maps.

something i had forgotten until i was checking out a map last night. balance points. i am not sure how these are set, but make sure to give plenty. there has been a few maps i have checked out that i could not load out the trucks i wanted because of this. example, a map has 4 slots, but only 5-6 balance points . so if i use a vehicle set at 3 points then i am limited to the rest being 1 point vehicles or short myself by removing one. now this is more aimed at trail maps really, since logging maps do need to keep some sort of balance imo.

last edited by 8up local
Community Moderator - Spintires

@8up-local
Agree on balance points, sort of.
As a big fan of 8x8 trucks, I need lot of stars anywhere. But this is generally thing of main game - exceeding number of stars shouldn't lock start button for you...

@8up-local said in Map Makers:

something i had forgotten until i was checking out a map last night. balance points. i am not sure how these are set, but make sure to give plenty. there has been a few maps i have checked out that i could not load out the trucks i wanted because of this. example, a map has 4 slots, but only 5-6 balance points . so if i use a vehicle set at 3 points then i am limited to the rest being 1 point vehicles or short myself by removing one. now this is more aimed at trail maps really, since logging maps do need to keep some sort of balance imo.

I agree. And it's also something I've planned on addressing in my trail map from the get go. Balance points for a map are set by a total sum of "unlocked" trucks balance points +1(quoted from the editor guide). Which means the balance points of all the pre-selected vehicles added together +1 more. If the vehicle selection slots are open/empty they only get 1 balance point each.

And that's where the problem arises. For some reason a lot of trail maps, in particular, have all open/empty slots. Which severely limits the available balance points. This is only less of a problem because vehicle modders are typically setting the number of balance points for trail vehicles to 1. But suppose they don't, or that you want to use vehicles with more balance points. Which isn't unreasonable. Then what?

Well, there's a couple solutions really. The first, and most obvious, being for map makers to not leave the vehicle selection slots open/empty. And to fill them with vehicles with higher balance points. Thereby giving the player more balance points to work with. And there's really no good reason a map maker wouldn't do this for trail maps. Where, like you said, balance points are basically meaningless. As in having too many isn't really a thing. And having more of them is only helpful to the player, by giving him a wider vehicle selection to choose from. This is the solution I've chosen for my trail map. I have the slots filled with five E-7310. Each having 5 balance points, for a total of 26 available balance points. Balance points problem solved. Of course you don't really want to use those vehicles for a trail map. But you're not forced to either. You simply need to select other vehicles instead.

The second, and much less obvious, solution is for the player to lower the balance points of the vehicle(s) they want to use for a particular map. Which is totally doable. And not really very difficult to do. You just find the right xml file, open it with a text editor, and set the balance points to whatever you want. But that's a messy solution to the problem for various reasons. It's time consuming, requires special "know how", is technically cheating, etc. Even I, knowing full well how to do it, and in a timely manner, would prefer not to have to.

last edited by MudHappy

@mudhappy Sorry guys but this makes no sense to me. Most trailing MOD vehicles are set at 1 point each, I have seen some set at 2 points but very few and those probably would not do well on trails.Trailing truck mods are always set at 1 point by the Modder for it to be used on trail maps. Four empty slots for four trailing vehicles is all you need for a trail map. If you try to use a bigger truck then a trailing vehicle on my map you'll go maybe 20 feet, so why?

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